Politics 2017


#2370

Okay? I missed the referenda in those countries.:roll_eyes:


#2371

Me I want to leave.


#2372

Is anyone stopping you? :yum:

Currently 90% support in Ireland. +60% in Spain. Italy +55% … they tried to appoint a finance minster who was anti the euro - but there’s not popular support for leaving the EU. Big difference.


#2373

https://www.ft.com/content/78b4ded6-51ce-11e7-bfb8-997009366969


#2374

Not so much as being stopped, it’s not even up for debate. There’s a media driven consensus E.U good and critical opinion is boxed off as nothing more than nonsense talk, to be sneered at. I believe this is an extremely dangerous attitude because not encouraging fair, open and intelligent debate drives minority opinions into more extreme positions and potentially actions. I personally have a considered negative opinion of the E.U I feel it’s based on intelligent and fair analysis it’s also popular amongst my peers when debated yet I find it rare if at all to hear or read a fair opposing opinion of the E.U in our media.


#2375

Simply not true. The Eu gets loads of flack in the media & rightfully so. I realise you’re a fan of conspiracy sites like the anti-media etc who proclaim to tell the truth and constantly run down ‘mainstream media’ for being part of the western conspiracy etc but the truth is often a lot more mundane. Sure they are agenda driven but to say they fawn over the Eu to the point of not criticizing it, is simply not accurate.


#2376

Your wrong, I’m a seeker of the truth and prepared to question, not one to take opinion as fact, but more one who finds the fact and forms opinion. Yes it would be much easier if i ran with the herd and complied. Cheer leaded with the agenda and allowed the 1% the control and indoctrination of the world under the auspices of progress and choice. Before you set off on a journey, it would be wise to consider what the final destination will be. The E.U can be accused of a public and a private agenda, after all they are politicians who are in the business of doing deals. In whose interest those deals are done is highly questionable. If you took a simplistic view of success well then the E.U is the panacea for all your ills, while a considered and factual analysis would point that the E.U is thriving on creating the illness and prescribing the cure.


#2377

you read a lot of alt news websites, a lot of which don’t fact check at all, so they present conspiracy and misinformation as “the real truth” but a lot of it Is just propaganda & fake news- eg you posted the white helmets “move with Isis” - by that i assume you mean they are terrorists on another thread.

If you Google it you will find umteen blog posts which say they are terrorists, yet snopes can find “no credible evidence”

I know you didn’t claim the second two but just posting them to show the types of misinformation that is out there, generally spread by alt-news websites.

Then you later posted links to some one-man band news site in America which claims “our media has let us down” (the standard battle cry of conspiracy websites) which says that the white helmets are run by western mercenaries and that:

Slowly and steadily the truth gathers as the state actors slip. The “white helmets” a western force for regime change.

sheesh. so many conspiracies, so little time.


#2379

If I don’t subscribe to the FT to read that article, does it mean…

A. I’m anti-Brexit and anti-UK?
B. The sky is falling in/the brakes have failed ala Chicken-Wolfboy Soros Little?
C. I certainly don’t want to contribute to the FT?
D. I’m a freeloading layabout who needs to get a job coz the bums will always lose?
E. I don’t believe any news anymore?
F. I heard the FT doesn’t know what a tracker mortgage is?


#2380

ha. i’m with you on the mortgage tracker.

The link just shows the generally positive stats towards the EU in italy and spain. Greece is very low, unsurprisingly, they resent the germans bailing them out and expecting them to sort out their shit out in return. Bloody bullying germans. Imagine expecting people to pay tax and to cut the size of their bloated civil service, which was totally unsustainable.

the internet is full of blogs from topics as diverse as football rumours, diets, news and psychology all proclaiming that the mainstream have it all wrong and only they know what the real answers are and 99.9% of it is either common sense or complete bollocks. Look at that blogger in Oz who claimed she cured her cancer through eating vegetables. Fooled a lot of people.


#2381

None of the major parties in Spain would be anti EU, leaving the EU is never on the agenda here, the current crisis is due to corruption, nothing to do with staying in the EU.


#2382

don’t let facts get in the way of a good conspiracy biggie.


#2383

[quote=“Tayto, post:2377, topic:1523”]
you read a lot of alt news websites, a lot of which don’t fact check at all, so they present conspiracy and misinformation as “the real truth” but a lot of it Is just propaganda & fake news- eg you posted the white helmets “move with Isis” - by that i assume you mean they are terrorists on another thread.

If you Google it you will find umteen blog posts which say they are terrorists, yet snopes can find “no credible evidence”

Snopes.com

FACT CHECK: Are the Syrian ‘White Helmets’ Rescue Organization Terrorists?

A nongovernmental search-and-rescue organization on the ground in Syria has drawn a lot of attention, but claims they are linked to terrorists are unfounded.

Snopes.com

FACT CHECK: Syrian War Victims Are Being ‘Recycled’ and Al Quds Hospital Was…

The idea that victims of mass tragedies are “recycled” is a common theme among conspiracy theorists, but there are international reports and footage of the Al Quds Hospital attack.

Snopes.com

FACT CHECK: Proof the White Helmets ‘Staged’ a Chemical Attack in Syria?

Images purportedly proving that the White Helmets staged a chemical attack in Syria are actually stills from a movie set.

I know you didn’t claim the second two but just posting them to show the types of misinformation that is out there, generally spread by alt-news websites.

Then you later posted links to some one-man band news site in America which claims “our media has let us down” (the standard battle cry of conspiracy websites) which says that the white helmets are run by western mercenaries and that:

Slowly and steadily the truth gathers as the state actors slip. The “white helmets” a western force for regime change.

sheesh. so many conspiracies, so little time.

Nappertandy:
Do yourself a service, look for the truth instead of looking for evidence to defend ones argument. I am not reaching for information because I have a set position, I’m merely questioning the narrative, to find and expose the truth. Be prepared to change your position if the facts contradict the message.


#2384

http://21stcenturywire.com/2017/04/02/the-real-syria-civil-defence-saving-real-syrians-not-oscar-winning-white-helmets-saving-al-qaeda/


#2385

There is a difference between anti EU sentiment and anti euro (currency) sentiment. Id imagine Italians are far more anti euro given if they had their own currency now they would devalue it. The currency project is flawed, and has been from the outset, given you have major industrial powerhouses sharing a currency with peripheral states.

The EU generally strives to bring poorer member economies up to the rest through regional funding and FDI but it’s not as easy as that and it doesn’t always work if those states don’t have their houses in order or are off the back of economic repression.

My long term guess would be currency union may contract but the EU itself will grow.


#2386

I think Ireland would have devalued its own currency once or twice since Brexit.


#2387

All will be revealed here in the next two hours but most seem to feel the motion will go through and the government is gone


#2388

Ship Rajoy!


#2389

Rajoy sunk


#2390

Just out of curiosity , what happens in Ireland if there is a vote of no confidence in the government, well here it was a vote of no confidence in the prime minister