Politics 2017


#2110

Thanks for your answer Napper (genuinely). With reference to the bit in bold, I actually agree with you. It’s for her with the help, advice and support of those closest to her to make that decision. The issue is that accommodating the provisions of the eight amendment results in legislation which very clearly does make that pronouncement on behalf of the State - it says she can’t abort the child in this country. That right to decide is removed from her and those she trusts most - I believe that to be fundamentally morally wrong. For me, that’s the very heart of the matter.

I do understand the concerns that abortion would become just another form of contraception and will admit personally I’d be uncomfortable were it to be so. I don’t believe that’d be the case to any significant extent here however, the numbers of people divorcing 23 years on suggest we’re still a pretty conservative people at heart.


#2111

It’s not a pleasant procedure to go through, so it will not just become something people do flippantly.


#2112

That’s a cop out. People died for your right to vote. Grow a pair.


#2113

It’s also my right not to vote if I don’t want to. It is a decision I can make for myself. Unlike the thousands of people who get ill in this country and cannot exercise their right to proper medical treatment. In fact many cannot even get to either see a Doctor or when rushed to hospital get a bed. If you dont believe me visit any hospital a&e and see what is happening there. I’ve been in a couple recently and the set up in M.A.S.H. Was better than what the HSE provide.
My point is that the Government has more important priorities to deal with where people are actually dying through their inaction and are doing nothing.


#2114

People have died through 8th Amendment inaction. Are you suggesting a death-led hierarchical system of governing? Absurd …


#2115

This is a very emotive subject and one I am not decided on yet but fair play to all here discussing - debating.


#2116

Absolutely not. But 8th amendment inaction is not the biggest killer in this Country, other illnesses and diseases kill far more people. Yet we don’t see the goofey head of any of the Goverment TDs peering over Varadkar or Harris’s shoulder when the hospital crisis is mentioned. They are just happy that the referendum debate might take them out of the medical winter crisis period and into the less critical summer months.
I fully sympathise with the need for abortion in Ireland in certain crisis pregnancy situations (though not as an additional form of contraception) I just believe that on medical grounds we, as a Country, need to prioritise those grounds so that the seriously ill can get treatment that is being denied at the moment.


#2117

I read that as peeing over Varadkar first, which probably says more about me…


#2118

I’m going to speak in general terms here as it is not directed at any poster and it’s not a response to any post here.

I think the argument that it will lead to free for all of abortion, with people going for them left right and centre, is nonsense really. I doubt anyone would go through it without due consideration. The same argument was made about divorce and that didn’t happen. It seems to be legislating for something that is already happening, a pretty harrowing something by all accounts.

(As an observation. I think this argument is usually made by voters of a particular hue. The Republicans in the US, Tories in the UK, FG in Ireland for example, but not exclusively. (And again that’s not a slight or intended to offend.) And it demonstrates an obvious fundamental mistrust in people, the tendency to expect the worst of people. It’s the same with welfare etc, any initiative or policy is discussed in negative terms, that it will be misused or abused.)


#2119

I work for the H.S.E in a disability team. The waiting lists for services for children and their families are scandalous and heart-breaking. They will continue until people stop voting for neoliberal, vulture-loving sociopaths who don’t care about the poor, the homeless or the public health service. Why any of this stops you for voting in the referendum is beyond me.


#2120

… so vote for who? The crazie left who will bankrupt the country?


#2121

The crazy right have bankrupted the country in the past. The crazy left have never been in charge so they cannot be accused of that. The right have done a great job of owning your mind though!


#2122

Owning my mind? … because someone with a different opinion to yours must be brainwashed?

Calling FG or FF sociopaths is top drawer hyperbole. They’re incompetent for sure but sociopaths. :sweat_smile:

We don’t have a right, not compared to the tories/republicans.


#2123

We don’t have a right? People are dying on trolleys, there are no social houses being built and they are talking about Plan 20-40! How right do they need to be? They own the press and have convinced you that they are not right wing! Brilliant. FG and FF have both at different times absolutely ruined our economy but you fear the left might do harm​:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: so you won’t vote for them! Touché!


#2124

Agreed. Religion/faith in terms of abortion etc is one argument on its own but does not cover all angles in this issue by a long shot.


#2125

You really have no tolerance for a different opinion, do you? bandying words like sociopath around. Accusing people who dont trust the likes of Boyd Barret or Paul Murphy of being brainwashed right-wingers.

So the left, who can’t even organise themselves into one semi-coherent party, is going to wave a wand and fix the health service and housing all at the same time. Amazing. where do i sign up exactly?

We don’t have a right as far right as the tories or the GOP. Even FG are center-right compared to those two entities.Glad you find that amusing.


#2126

Are the SWP and the SP representative of the left? They’re Marxists and Trots pretending to be popular protest parties

I would have thought the left consists mostly of SF, LAB, SD, various indos and evens stretches into a few Fianna Failers

A sizeable minority of FG are most certainly around the same level of hard right as the tories, they’re just kept quiet by HQ


#2127

By the way, i’d Be a labour voter traditionally, don’t confuse my denying that FF & FG are sociopaths as a ringing endorsement of their policies or the job they have done. I just don’t see a viable option on the left, certainly not the far left. Labour have hobbled themselves. the social democrats talk some sense But have a long way to go. The shinners are economically illiterate.


#2128

When FG figures were 2 billion out, before the last election, who pointed that out? Pearse Doherty:

So who is more economically literate? FF who ruined the place? FG who said they would pay not a cent to bondholders and then did - or Pearse Doherty who made them look like clowns?


#2129

To me, when you see people dying of the cold on our streets, when you see people dying on hospital trolleys, when you see thousands on housing lists…and you refuse to do anything and appear to be entirely disconnected from humanity, then you are presenting with sociopathy!