Politics 2017


#2090

Is it too early for popcorn?


#2091

Wait, wait. Are you seriously dismissing the real life (not hypothetical, in fact well publicised) example I cited of the minor pregnant as the result of an incestuous rape as ‘tenuous’?

I believe there are several good reasons to remove the eight amendment and legislate for what I consider an unfortunate necessity in Ireland. The fact that girls and women in a certain life situation (time, resources, age, relationship status) can already travel abroad (and at least 170,000 have since 1980 despite the 8th amendment) to have one is among them, as it removes that option for those that aren’t in such a situation.


#2092

Repealing the 8th amendment, will not provide you with “full access to best medical practice”. It also doesn’t provide any guarantee that the pregnant person is in full control of their pregnancy.
What the 8th amendment does and does not do is clearly available online for you to read, without any bias from me. Whether you choose to vote yes or no, i hope that it is from an informed position.


#2093

Do you have anything to say in defence of the unborn child ?


#2094

Personally, in that instance I would say it would be far better off never being born. All common sense suggests so, we ban rape and incest for that very reason.


#2095

This story was mentioned above by trueblueforever, just think we may be overlooking the gravity of the context. One German interviewer could do what the Irish media failed to do for 30 years.
This reveals more about our democracy than than anything else.


#2096

So you think that there’s no subsection in the hse manual on consent specifically in relation to the 8th amendment?

Access to abortion is within the scope of best medical practice in certain circumstances and is denied currently except for the most extreme circumstances


#2097

He’s a sad sack who has learned from a long way back how to get away with shit by avoidance. He has made a life of luxury out of it. His own corrupt, and at the time much more criticised party leader described him as the most skillful, the most devious of them all.


#2098

While we’re on the subject, do you think the girl should feel blessed at being given the opportunity to create life, regardless of the circumstances?


#2099

Can I answer that? Emotive and unfair argument. Feel blessed? This isn’t 1983. It’s about whether you think an unborn child has a right to life or not. Keep the emotive shite out of it.


#2100

It isn’t just about the unborn child, it’s about the 14 year old child too. Blessed or not, my question remains how Napper thinks that girl should feel and what she should do. That hasn’t been answered.


#2101

Of course it’s about the mother too, its about her first. But the ‘feel blessed’ bit is really unescessary. That because you argue for the unborns rights you are somehow automatically a religious zealot.


#2102

I’d consider myself proud to be Irish, but our tolerance of this kind of crap infuriates me. The night Ahern got a standing ovation in Parnell Park was the most cringe-worthy episode in my time following Dublin. Sure the man did a lot for the GAA but he had just been revealed by a tribunal to be up to his gills in corruption and lies. We’ve still got a lot of growing up to do as a Nation and holding crooks accountable for their actions would be a good start.


#2103

I don’t particularly want to get involved in the 8th amendment vote, in fact I have more or less decided not to exercise my right to vote in this referendum for the first time in more than 40 years but I love this mention of women having to go abroad as an excuse for allowing abortion to be legalised in Ireland.
Both sides argue about the unborn but what about the born! Many of whom are ill and waiting for their right to medical treatment in this country and who have to leave Ireland to get treatment - just to stay alive- at their own expense or via fund raising. Why doesn’t those unfortunate people leaving the country mean the same as women leaving for abortion. Why won’t our Government act to help them Instead of rushing to do so with the abortion issue?

In my opinion the whole 8th amendment issue has been created by Fine Gael and their so called Independent colleagues to deflect from their absolute failure to manage this Country properly for the last 7 years. Yes the abortion is important but there are other issues that are more important which need to be dealt with first.


#2104

Very simplistic


#2105

I don’t think that. But essentially the position of those that call themselves pro-life is that all life is sacred, even when a foetus, even as a result of incest and/or rape. So what should she feel? If she can convince a court that she’s suicidal, she can have the abortion here and the ‘pro-lifers’ are opposed to that too. They’re also opposed to the wider availability of the morning after pill which might have prevented the need for any abortion in the first place. So it’s not unreasonable to conclude they regard pregnancy in any circumstances as a blessing.


#2106

Not how I see it at all. More a fact of life, and what should one do about it. You can call it a blessing or whatever language you want but the point really is that if theres a pregnancy then there’s a question of life, and death, therefore also the right of life. Blessing makes it sound religious which is fairly easily dismissed lately


#2107

There aren’t 3,500-4,000 people having to leave the country for any other specific procedure. This is an issue that can be addressed with one constitutional change and the enactment of legislation. There are myriad factors behind why treatment for other conditions isn’t available here, the matter of liability in cases of high risk procedures being a major one.

The Government is addressing this because it has to. The European Court of Human Rights found in 2010 that women in Ireland were being denied their constitutional right to abortion. As signatories to the European Convention on Human Rights the Government is legally obliged to remove any breaches of the Convention. All political parties are cynical enough to create smokescreens but this isn’t one. Given that the issue forced a split in FG, I believe this is one that they’d rather have kicked down the road given any choice.

Obviously the Savita Halappanavar case brought matters to a head. That was ultimately a case of medical malpractice but the influence of the 8th amendment on the legislation surrounding what doctors can do in that instance was also a factor, in that they had to wait until they had definite proof Savita’s life was in danger before acting by which time it was too late.


#2108

I get where you’re coming from Al and acknowledge the danger in presenting this as a religious versus non-religious argument when it’s much more complex than that. But likewise it would be disingenuous to claim religion isn’t a major influence on the pro-life movement, many comments I have seen online cite the bible or quotes from Popes etc. Which is fine but shouldn’t override all other considerations IMO.


#2109

URoy
1h
25AliveOh:
Can I answer that? Emotive and unfair argument. Feel blessed? This isn’t 1983. It’s about whether you think an unborn child has a right to life or not. Keep the emotive shite out of it.
Uroy,
It isn’t just about the unborn child, it’s about the 14 year old child too. Blessed or not, my question remains how Napper thinks that girl should feel and what she should do. That hasn’t been answered.
My (nappertandy) reply to Uroy
I really really don’t want to get into this, but I will make one further point with a true story that I have personal experience of. It’s not an abortion story but I believe we are all somewhat conditioned by our environment and personal circumstances which colours our judgement and leads us to the decisions we make.
I spoke with an acquaintance recently and the conversation drifted into his life story, when I queried why he was on 14 different meds at 41 yrs of age. He explained his horrific early years to the age of 8 when having been thrown by his father through a glass window he was hospitalised and removed from his parents. Long story short he was given the opportunity to see his parents as they lay dieing in hospital and he declined. Horrific and all that his story is and that he still needs to sleep with a light on and suffers greatly he is very grateful to be alive all things considered. While I am of my parents, I am not my parents good, bad or indifferent. Each life should be respected in its own right.
As for your question Uroy on what the 14 yr old girl should do, I believe she should be loved and protected, advised by the best professionals in the field and supported in her very long journey to recovery . Does that mean she does or doesnt have the baby, none of us can make that pronouncement. But I would say the answer shouldn’t decide whether or not we protect the life of every other unborn child.