NFL Division 1 Final, Dublin v Kerry, Sunday 9th April, Croke Park, 4pm


Agreed but there comes responsibility with that too. That black card was petulant at best. I think we would have won the game with him on too given he scored a super point, was giving superb passes inside and was hauled down for a goal chance.

The league is a lesser thing but we can’t have our key players missing the major games for stuff like that. If you take a black card let it be worthwhile.


Talk on here about some of your older players being past it are a little over the top in my opinion. I was sitting beside my young lad at the game on Sunday and we were commenting before the game on the lethal forwards ye had. I think they had a slightly off day but the ball in to them was untypically poor and I was very glad the radar was off as Kerry needed this win a little more than the Dubs and I think it showed on the field.
I’m sure Jim Gavin will turn this defeat into a positive as it will be easy to motivate his players and I’d say training will be just a kick off the intensity of an August championship game. The only problem he might have is to gel in younger players as the Leinster championship is like the Munster one and Dublin are unlikely to get a proper test before bigger days. Fitzmaurice used the league with a little more cuteness and he has blooded several young players and he threw them in last Sunday to give them a taste of Croker and indeed an important day on the field with the dubs in more or less championship intensity.
Winning is nice but it won’t unduly worry the losing team, to be fair both teams played wonderful football and it was an incredible game when you consider its only early April. One thing is when Kerry and Dublin are playing your almost assured of a full stress test and I look forward to our next meeting.


It was certainly a case of diminishing returns as the year progressed, from a high water mark of the league final. Sean Moran says in his piece linked above the only player to play in the AI final who didn’t play in the league final was Andrews, it’s a long time to maintain that level of performance as form and fitness fluctuate, and you have long periods between games of differing difficculty. It’s understandable that Gavin wanted to get the full team playing early as no doubt last year was about making a solid effort at winning the AI again but it’s a long year.

This year the extended break and slow return of players is no doubt with the bigger picture in mind. But that’s all well and good if you win. Get beaten again by Kerry in the summer and the loss on Sunday carries entirely different connotations.


It’s a long time to maintain the mental edge, physically if you are fit as these guys are, then you should be easily able to play 5 games over 3 months without being physically tired, unless the training is all wrong. Fact is we were on holiday late this year and eased a lot of lads back in quite late in the league, giving them a break from it mentally is important but we shouldnt expect everyone to just slot back in and be up to speed and sharpness in a week or two. in the medium term this strategy ought to pay off … hopefully.


looking washed out, or over the hill is one thing - the reasons for it quite another. we really do not know where Dublin are in terms of their development. They could very well be in an early stage but their general level of fitness and quality was enough to get to almost win a league final.

Gavin doesnt have the luxury that Fitzmaurice has of bringing in a raft of new players and leaving them there to sink or swim either, this isnt 1996 where most of a winning team were past it in retrospect, all the lads you name have expectations of being regulars on the p[anel this year, and Gavin I think has started them awfully late to accomodate that. In those circumstances there was no way we would be running new lads as much as kerry. Maybe next year.

On Brogan for example - i read here that he had played two club league games this year beofre comign back to the county panel? How many games did he have post All Ireland in the club championship last year? I dont think it was many. Yet, with less than a handful of games he was still there on sunday. You can be pessimist and say he was a liability or, perhaps, an optimist and say that even with a player with so few games we were berely beaten?


the game vs Roscommon was the worst thing to happen Dublin. brogan and flynn were virtually unmarked and had a field day which glossed over deficiencies which high mileage unfortunately causes


Let’s look at alternative scenario of the game . Dean scores the point & we take them in extra time . I wonder would peoples opinions have been very different ( obviously ) but I wonder would we be highlighting the same short comings we are now. I imagine we would be saying " Jesus , this team never gives up , what a come back win " . We might have glossed over Moran’s “heroic” display or how well their youngsters played .We’ve be glossing over alot of things in this league because we pulled results out of the bag . We could potentially have lost all 4 games against Tyrone , Donegal , Kerry & Monaghan . How do we learn ? From our mistakes & losses . This was perfect in that regard when we hit the business end of the champo . Kerry showed a lot on Sunday , we have to learn from that .


Fitness in terms of injuries, it’s a long year to go without expecting to pick up little niggles etc in training which then impact on form.

Anyhow, the true import of Sunday will only be revealed later in the year - in terms of where teams were really at, tactics used (which I think is a key part of the discussion), match ups won or lost, the impact of winning or losing on the respective teams.


This has been a great thread …


Are you sure we’re not just papering over the cracks of a thread that’s got too many miles on the clock then?

Some people would argue that unless we bring in new opinions soon then other threads will catch up with us and we’ll be crying into our keyboards come September. We should have tried out some different opinions earlier in the thread, it’ll be too late to throw them around in the summer heat and the opinions that have served us well over the last few years have become threadbare and over used. I fear for the future.


high mileage possibly but much more likely rustiness and fitness

Brogan only returned from honeymoon in mid February - Cian was travelling until then and Flynn had an extended break until just before then


This thread would still hammer any thread ever over on Hoganstand. But it might struggle a bit against some threads on the Kerry forum…


Interesting viewing on watching back in the 38th minute.

Long kick out from Clucko aimed at Scully and Moran took him out of it, could quite easily have been construed as a black card for pulling him down but it would have been extremely harsh & I’m not 100% sure if it would fall within the rules.

30 seconds later, Fento was lucky not to see black for blocking the runner after he had made the pass forward.


Hogan and Kerry forums? ■■■■ that I never go full retard


Only applies if you are wearing the Dublin Number 12 …


On the performance of Flynn and Brogan etc. these guys have had lots of quiet games over the years. Brogan especially has had lots of games where it doesn’t happen for him (which is just a function of playing in the full forward line I think). Putting a quiet game together with age / mileage is just too simple a solution. Games don’t happen for guys for lots of reasons, more usually to do with tactical shapes then anything they do themselves.

One extra score on Sunday and the whole narrative would change. I don’t think there was enough evidence from one game to make a huge heap of judgements on anything. The only consistent issue I can see that does need addressing is our third quarter performance. This is becoming a regular thing now and does need addressing. There is huge emphasis on laying down the bedrock of the game at the start, and also of finishing it well. But somehow, that needs to be bought together with minutes 35 to 50.


Surely one extra score would have meant 30 extra minutes of unfit or past-it Dubs playing against a Kerry team at its top form.

It would have been a slaughter.


It’s not really about having quiet games. I think the effect of hard running is more of a problem for players are they get older and are only over injuries. If Brogan or Andrews could stay up front and only do running when required they would be fine. The modern game doesn’t work like that though and we lost scores last week as a result.

What Philly did to Cooper in the 2015 final is an example of this and we have to address it now that we are encountering it.

Bernard is a key part of the team and if he can come in and make an impact it would be a serious asset and that potential shouldn’t be baulked at. We are lucky to have it.


Or the flipside, a Dublin side which had fought to the end finding their second wind in extra time and overcoming Kerry. At the end of the day, the sleepy sleepy period cost us the game not Philly’s late wide or the non-penalty award.


Totally a given and he does grab the game by the scruff but we’ve been looking to him to ‘react better’ for close on 6 or 7 years now. He did chill out a bit but now having 2 black cards in 2 games there’s only one narrative coming into Championship from an opposing manager and that’s to get DC sent off the pitch one way or another. Sure the managers are admitting this stuff already.

When DC finishes up, there won’t be accolades heaped on him from outside of Dublin, he never was popular amongst his peers or with the media and he will have finished with more titles than the gooch.
I don’t envy that JG when sitting down has to obviously include one of the best footballers in the country and have a back up or contingency plan for him not playing the full 70.
Hopefully DC gets back to his mindfulness or being in the moment and not dwelling on things that happen in a game and lashing out.