Leinster SHC QF 2017, Dublin v Galway, O'Connor Park, Tullamore, Sun May 28th, 4pm (Live RTÉ)


@Wifi @rockey Some very good points in this article.

9 Leinster Titles at Minor-21’s in 12yrs is some achievement and shows we’re doing something right, and it leads to why is there not a follow on into Senior. We could argue that Limerick and Galway have had the same issues.

I would argue his point on producing a batch of top class coaches or mentors. How many of those Coaches/Manager who have had success at Minor/21’s level have moved up to Adult Levels? Possibly only Johnny McGuirk.

I’ve said this before on this forum, the Blueprint/Methodology/Training used needs to be spread across the County at Club level, IMO if this is done we will start to see more Top Class (for want of a better word Homegrown).

Sending Good Hurling GPOs out to Clubs his a strain on them and undermines those already in that Club.

If you look at the Methods used in Barcelona, they have the same training regime from U.8’s to Senior, and are producing top footballers at Juvenile Levels to keep constant flow into Adult Teams.#

If we have every Coach/Mentor in Dublin using the same basic template as Development/Inter County level we will then be the envy of other Counties. It would take sometime and investment,but, would have must better results IMO.


It’s called forwards . Without them you can’t win anything


i’d disagree with you regarding the profile of top hurling counties mgmt

Cody self explanatory
Michael Ryan on mgmt ticket since 2010 with Sheedy and was appointed a year in advance when eamon O’Shea announced stepping down
Derek Mcgrath, well known from delasalle club and School
John Kiely successful Limerick u21
Donal Moloney , Gerry O’Connor Clare u21 success
Michael Donoghue Clarinbridge to an all ireland club title and tipp backroom
Kieran Kingston Cork selector under JBM

none were unheard of outside their own counties and McGrathwas the only one not previously either a senior selector or successful U21 manager, and most managed successful club teams


Just with regards to coaches/managers at Intercounty level, bar senior level how are our mentors selected? With development squads starting at U13 or U14 level who decides who should run these panels? Is it up to the Development committee to suggest people to the county board or do the county board have an open invitation where anybody can throw their name in for a job?

For example what managerial experience would the current minor manager have up to now? He is still a young man (mid thirties I think) and is possibly still playing? So would he have being mentoring at a high adult level or would he just have been involved with his club at this age group and have a knowledge of the players of that age group? BTW if anyone thinks I am doubting his ability they are wrong, just interested in how the selection process works at our various age groups.

Should we go down a Barca/Ajax route and get the best coaches available example a Tommy Dunne type coaching at u13 age to set them on their way. Start developing our backs and forwards then instead of having a Tommy Dunne being a skills coach with our senior team. If we have a Tommy Dunne coaching skills at u13 we may not need to over rely on a Tommy Dunne at senior level.


But we would have rough equivalents in Dublin, successful underage county managers (relatively speaking), successful club managers (Cuala were pushed harder in Dublin then anywhere else) and guys who have been selectors under Daly and Cunningham. So I could argue an equivalent for everyone on the list above.

Maybe I am stretching a point a little, I get it that if you actually win an U21 All Ireland it elevates you above just reaching an U21 semi - but I would argue not by a huge amount. If we didn’t have the football drain we would probably have won one of them by now.

I am not by any means claiming Dublin is a bastion of serious hurling coaches, but a) I think we are not so bad b) I don’t think you need to be steeped in success to be a top manager and c) some guys with underage management success had serious serious players to work with. I am 100% sure there are people in Dublin who could do the job very well. I appreciate it is a lot harder to pick them when they might not have the CV of others, but picking any manager is a leap of faith and CVs only tell a small amount.


All very good points, I don’t know either how people get these positions, but I assume it by dint of their commitment and knowledge over the preceding years. From the outside looking in, I think we are generally well served by our underage managers, so however they are picked it seems to work ok.

On your point of what age you coach at, i.e. the seniors or the young guys - I honestly think there is too much coaching going on. If you get enough guys playing, and playing competitively, they will develop their own skills and the cream will rise to the top. I am not against coaching per se, just that when the wrong thing is coached it can do a lot of damage. The ability to catch a high ball (for example) has nearly been coached out of Dublin youngsters as they are thought this thing of going with one hand on the hurl. I have seen young lads learning to go for high balls like this, and then having to unlearn it when they got older. Other stuff like young lads being screamed at to pick the ball with two hands on the hurl in games is also crazy and I can see senior county players still trying it - you can’t pick the ball at speed with two hands as you have to bend too low and twist too much. If guys are left to develop naturally, they will sort this out themselves.

Coaching has a place, but it seems to be too dictatorial at the moment. I expect it is a lot better then when I was playing as I think over 50% of what I was being told was just wrong (all that pull on the ground shite and don’t worry about where it goes for instance), but I don’t think it is perfect either. Hurling is 99% practise and 1% being shown what to do.

I would encourage a playing style of some sort (as the footballers sort of have now), but individual skills stuff I would just leave to players to learn themselves for the most part.


A mixture of Fortune and Mattie Kenny to me would be the way to go.( if they both would take it together). Would be a great scenario using two men who would get all the players required back and both have won with the current available players. Outside that it’s going down the route of cvs and bedding in time. Could put them with Dublin selectors and good coaches


When is our next fixture. July?


What I was suggesting @sneakersotoole is using the Development Template across Clubs, I just used Barca as example.
From what I hear Cuala use the same Senior Template at Juvenile level. Maybe Clubs should look to Cuala as an example. There seems to be a fear within Clubs in Dublin to look for guidance within the County. Personally I’ve never had an issue going to successful Dublin Clubs to see how they do it.


There is a huge difference in winning an all Ireland title and just making the semi final at u21 . To win it you must beat at least 3 top ranked sides . To win Leinster it’s typically one .
We’ve an atrocious record in all Ireland semis finals at all grades of levels . Lamentable


Cody spends a lot of time working…some would say coaching, the entire tackle with all Kilkenny senior players. Hooking, blocking, snigging the ball away, the lot. I’ve mentioned it here before lads, most players in Dublin are poorly coached at club level. There are exceptions, but in general its poor enough. Coaching football from 8-13/14 is way easier and many parents with their kids teams will be happy enough to just do that. Ask any juvenile player how often they spend on skills like tackling, catching etc during their coaching sessions. I do ask, and the answer is always the same (most of them dont).

And I wont be popular for this, but some of the best coaching and what you will learn from them comes from country lads


get that stake ready… coals being heated already


Let’s put it bluntly without the input of Tipp and Kilkenny coaches in Dublin we would be hurling with the likes of Meath on a regular basis.
The coaching in many Dublin clubs is rubbish.


Don’t you love these weeks waiting for games, no club championship, no county championship, nothing. someone remind me why the u21 match had to be 3 days after the senior game again?


And the Munster matches not even started at u21 yet.


I am sure it can be better in Dublin, and I am sure there are better out there. But at the same time most young lads spend 2 maybe 3 hours a week on hurling training. That is only a small fraction of the time they need to be spending on hurling, I would think most of the young lads at county level (or at least aspiring towards it) are spending an hour or two a day with a hurl in their hands. So I think whatever input is happening at club level just isn’t a big enough percentage of the time needed to influence guys for better or worse.

I think things like catching just isn’t really a coachable skill. Sure, you can show a guy how to do it, but unless he practises the hell out of it himself it is not going to get any better, even if he has the best coach in the world training him. I wouldn’t know a lot about soccer, but I see on TV that when countries like England (well, it’s not actually a country, but you know what I mean) are playing some South American team - the South Americans are often referred to as ‘technically better’. I am sure England has the best coaching money can buy and the South American’s possibly don’t (with apologies for massive stereotyping), but my point is that coaching doesn’t actually make you better with the ball. It can actually harm you in some instances - like the thing I mentioned before how I think Dublin have been coached out of how to handle high balls.

For me coaching should be just correcting the form of the player when he is implementing a skill (like put hands lower, right foot forward etc). but after that the player has to go away and learn it himself. The external input should be small (but accurate). Coaching when it is one to one and very well defined can be of huge help, some players will never get to strike the ball properly off their weak side, because their body form coming into it just won’t allow it, and stuff like that can be corrected. But alternatively, some very good players do stuff totally wrong, and it works. There are still lots of backhanded hurlers out there at the top level with their weak hand on top for instance. Even the Kilkenny tackling that Cody focuses on, I wonder is that actually coached, or just encouraged. It is possible they just put a huge amount of emphasis on it, and give guys a bollocking if it isn’t done, but I suspect it is up to the player himself to figure out how to do it. Maybe because they are not spending time hitting the ball up and down the field in rows on the ground, they have more times to play games and perfect the actual game playing skills. The one thing that guys can’t do on their own, away from organised training is play games, so I think it should be a focus of training.

I think the main harm bad coaching can do is just waste time. The amount of time I spent as a young lad playing training games where we weren’t allowed pick the ball up was just time wasted when I could have been practising hurling, and not hockey. But apart from that, the vast majority of time spent hurling training is just good time, because you have a hurl in your hand - that is the most beneficial part of it.

Coaching has a big role to play in teaching guys what to do with the ball when they have it, and getting teams to work together as a unit, that has to be done in group situations, and done over and over again. But to improve a players skill set, I would think 95% of that happens away from the training ground with guys playing against a wall or the like.


Well yes, i cant disagree with a lot of that. I think anyone on here that is looking after a juvenile team could maybe answer as to how much time they spend at the various aspects of skill and the bits required for players in the game. There is no doubt that self practice is key to it all, but when it comes to hooking / blocking etc, that needs to be clearly shown to lads. Let them make up their own mind, the block becomes a chop etc etc, so the finer points need to constantly re-enforced.

I think Small sided games have kinda knackered out any chance of long striking and high catching…or even just catching in general. How many young lads do you see taking the ball on the hurl first instead of into the hand?? It becomes a bad habit. Next time your sitting in Parnell watching the half time puck around, watch for it…its an epidemic :wink:

I often wonder why we don’t produce more forwards, then i would like to know, how much time clubs give to developing that aspect of a player, do they spend the time working on it?? What does the local club coach do to open up a lads ability and allow him to take the risks and express himself as a forward?

I kid you not when I say I asked lads how often they get to do a lot of the above in club sessions and the answer was never.


??? Of course catching is a skill that can be coached


Interesting read


I don’t know, it is such an innate skill I am not sure how you do coach it. Sure, you can show people how to protect the hand and all that stuff, and to a degree where to stand in relation to an opponent. But the bulk of it is going to come from guys just practising catching the ball. I would suspect the best proponents of it in the country got there by just doing it, and not by being shown it.