Irish Politics


#3172

You’d be surprised at how supposedly intelligent people can get involved in the most pettiest of debates!


#3173

The IRA was not founded in 1970.


#3174

I hear what you’re saying.

But what’s missing is the mood of the the nationalist/republican community at the time.

Had the IRA laid down arms before political concessions were reached…they’d have been simply replaced by a new generation.

The only way to break the cycle of armed conflict was to bring the UK govt to the negotiaton table and remove the source of conflict pre-68.

Whilst that would ultimately enshrine the principlal of consent…it also broke the raison d’etre of the state.

Debate will always continue about the morality of any armed campaign…:but it’s unlikely northern society would have changed as much without it.


#3175

Now there is peace here, I can’t imagine things going back to what they were.

The weird thing is that during the troubles, people got so normalised to it.

Years ago a friend of mine met a girl from Kerry on holiday and I can remember her first experience of being up here and seeing armed police and army patrols. It struck me then.

Its only now it’s ended…do you look back and count your blessings that you weren’t caught up in it.


#3176

You don’t get it, do you? You said that the SOLE reason for the EXISTENCE of the IRA was to bring about a 32 County Republic. Do try to keep up.


#3177

The sole reason for the existence of the IRA WAS the achievement of a Republic. What other reason was there?

Republicans always tried to avoid being forced into being defenders of the Catholic community but that was forced upon the IRA after 1969, as it had been in the early 1920s. That was reason the 50s campaign excluded Belfast and Derry city because IRA wanted to avoid possibility of loyalist backlash in the cities,

I know what you are saying upthedall and ending the conflict was the correct thing to do. Anyone deluding themselves that some tiny group of chaps can do what the Provies couldn’t is living in cloud cuckoo land. Of course the current situation is preferable to what existed before 1998.

However, the fact remains that constitutional situation had not changed, nor will it in the foreseeable future.


#3178

You never replied to my posting of the vote breakdown from the last assembly elections. There most certainly will be a border poll in the near future. Chalk it down.


#3179

Great way for lads to get out of the house, meet up and wear balaclavas.

It’s amazing when you talk to people who live in the north, unionists are convinced that the GFA was a loss for them and the end is nigh. Republicans believe the GFA was a surrender and cemented the status quo.

The people who show the greatest ambivalence to a united ireland are people down south. We’re like an ould fella watching the telly being asked to go out …ah it will cost to much …ah it will too difficult. The South has the greatest partitionist mentality. If we’re bad the poor ould unionist are loyal to a union who couldn’t tell you what county is part of the north or south and would drop them as soon the could if it politically expedient to do so.

The Irish…a great bunch of lads altogether.


#3180

You are speaking for yourself when you mention ambivalence.


#3181

I speak on behalf of the vast majority of the country who since the foundation of the free state turned it’s back on the north.

No government up there since god know when and no a peep from our public representatives, why ? An ambivalent attitude that as long as there aren’t bombs going off or there is no chance of it spilling over down here were happy. Sad but true, never been one for barstool republican histrionics.


#3182

We will have to disagree.


#3183

For sure…unification was the stated aim of the republican movement.

But the vast majority of republicans realised the most they could expect was negotiations with the British Govt - and a complete change of northern society.

It’s why people on the Falls Rd celebrated the ceasefire. Here would never be an orange state again.

That may not sound a big acheievement.

But if you had told people in 1969 - that 40 years later they’d have Power sharing, end to unionist domination at Stormont, fair employment legislation, disbandment of the RUC / specials, UDR, Irish language areas etc…they probably wouldn’t have believed you.

I really don’t know what the future holds. But I appreciate anyone in the south that even cares about here. Looking at the manifestos of the political parties…I guess the reality is here doesn’t get a mention.


#3184

Tumbles, no other guerrilla outfit on the planet fought the Brits to a standstill. Stalemate. End of.


#3185

The breakdown was 55:45 in favour of pro union parties - DUP, UUP, Alliance, TUV and a few independents.

You only referred to SF and DUP. Election would have to be close to 50:50 before NI Secretary would consider calling a poll. And even if there was one at the moment it would back remaining in UK.

I suspect SF realise both of these facts and are talking it up as distraction from their current impotence. That may change if Tories lose next election, unlikely, or no longer need DUP, but option then will be to go back into Stormont, assuming that hasn’t happened before then. SF wanted to earlier in year but DUP turned them down.

As for fighting the Brits to a standstill, the Kenyans and Israelis got what they fought for. The IRA did not. end of :slight_smile:


#3186

Most of that post is your opinion. Are you insinuating that the Israelis fought and defeated the British???


#3187

How many elections over the last 20 years have seen them fall back?

Here are some of the more recent car crash results for them…

2007 General Election: 4 Seats, 143,410 1st Preference Votes 6.9%
2011 General Election: 14 Seats, 220,161 1st Preference Votes 9.9%
2016 General Election: 23 Seats, 295,319 1st Preference Votes 13.8%


#3188

Two observations on those figures.
Firstly, quite obviously, their 1st preference vote is increasing at every election.
Secondly, given the ratio of seat per 1st preference vote has also increased, it would suggest that they are also getting transfers from voters they previously would not have.


#3189

Didn’t the Indian people protest and strike them into submission? And the Afghans did OK over the whole season too I thought? Despite being only a small national team really.


#3190

They didn’t fight them to a standstill, they surrendered.


#3191

I was clearly referring to their current impotence in the Six counties.

They will only be effective in south if they join a coalition as a junior party with FG or FF.

Another thing they swore they would never do up until a year ago!

That’s what middle of the road parties do. Anything to get into power. But they really ought to drop the pretence that they are any different any more to the rest.

There was a discussion on corporation tax above and when in coalition with DUP SF supported lowering the corporation tax rate in the north. Which must be pretty unique for an allegedly left wing party.