Very good post Southsider. I dont know the true facts about the backroom staff or players that were dropped/walked over the last two years but its a serious turn around. Im all for bringing in new talent and putting in the effort into nurishing new players ect… But surley the players that have been dropped nevermind walked for whatever reason have very valuabale experience… Yes we definitely need blood into the panel but surely it has to be done on a gradual basis? Of course the future of Dublin hurling is with our younger players but IMO to disregard so many players in such a short space of time that have played at the top level, with all the experience they have is criminal. Regarless of age ect does GC honestly believe that the panel of players he has for next year is a better bunch than last year? Every team makes changes but surley the younger players would have learned so much more from training around lads with so much intercounty experience?
But people continue to use the “Dalo did this and was great at that etc etc”.
Spoke to a player who was very unhappy with Dalo. Promised him game time and was continually overlooked to cater for some of our “newly departed”. Dalo had an old boys club with some of the players and they were always plating in spite of better options on the bench. GC gave fresh players a chance and Dalos lads jumped ship as soon as the going got tough.
Again, I’m not advocating the current circumstances, but this crap that Dalo was holier than thou is getting old at this stage. If he freshened up the squad earlier, they would of done better.
It is just a bad situation but please stop using Dalo as the white Knight in shining armour because he is not. He inherited a panel from Tommy Naughton which was just after becoming serious. Yes, he brought them to the next level, but there was a bunch of Leinster minor and u21 winning teams to supplement the squad.
Best of luck to Cuala tomorrow
You seriously think players should dictate to managers what position they played for Dublin???
Carton wasn’t dropped from the 26 after Galway, he was dropped from the 15. But he told Cunningham he wouldn’t be back-up for the full back line, so pulled himself out of the 26. Imagine the sympathy a footballer would get if he pulled that with Gavin! None.
I don’t rate Cunnigham at all as a manager. He seems clueless how to change things if a game isnt going well, and he’s almost always too slow to make substitutions.
But it’s not his job to be a nice guy. He’s well entitled (in fact it’s part of the job) to tell players they are no longer required so that he can add younger players to the panel. No easy way to do that and of course players dropped will be upset, but that’s the way it goes.
Its a huge pity that Sutcliffe, Kelly and Carton decided themselves to walk away, because probably the best thing GC has done has been to make room for upcoming new players
I don’t think anyone is saying Dalo was perfect but in a sense he was our White Knight. We hadn’t won anything in decades before he arrived and he delivered a National League & Leinster title. Tommy Naughtons team lost to Westmeath in the 2006 Leinster Championship!!
Can you list all the players you think were hard done by during Dalos tenure as in didn’t get game time but should have?
A depressing outlook for 2017 awaits. 1 or 2 disgruntled players walking away from a team due to lack of game time but the sheer volume of lads who have departed plus the turnover of selectors speaks volumes.
What’s worst in all of this is the county boards reaction. Does anyone think another top 8 hurling teams county board would allow this to happen. We have a ton of work being done at clubs juvenile and development squads. And now somehow we’re content to just let some of our most talented seniors just walk away. The players deserve better
But the manager has to bring the players along with him, it needs to be part of his skill set. OK, that can’t be managed with all of the players all of the time, and I think if this was just one or two, very few would have issues - but it is very far from one or two.
Some of the media is giving Cunningham credit for creating a set up where young guys can flourish and develop in a few years, but this is giving him credit for something he didn’t plan, it is the unintended consequence of bad management. It is a result of his inability to keep Kelly, Sutcliffe etc. Dublin will do ok, we have loads of talent, we are Leinster U21 and Minor champions, and hopefully after today, club champions. But this is all to do with the people in Dublin doing great work with young lads, and very little to do with Cunningham.
What are you basing this on?
No I absolutely don’t think that players should dictate where they play. If I suggested that (and I can’t see where I did) then I didn’t express myself correctly. I was simply explaining that there were options other than wing back to accommodate MC. The central issue remains; GC cannot command the loyalty or respect of backroom or playing staff. Change was inevitable and necessary in the squad, but the suggestion that senior players walked off in a huff because they lost their places underestimates the integrity of players who invested massive amounts in effecting change in how Dublin hurling is perceived, and seriously underestimates the unhappiness of the dressing room for players and staff.
The only way Cunningham will be moved is if more players walk. However he has gotten rid of most of the lads who had the balls to speak against him or they have walked, out of frustration with the short-passing bollocks. It is utter nonsense to suggest that what he has done was all part of a plan to bring through young players. The sad thing is that the young lads are probably thrilled to have gotten the call up and they may save him some blushes if they can. However I fear for them.
Kelly, Sutcliffe, Ryan etc. leaving of their own accord. If he did actually organise it so Sutcliffe and Kelly in particular would leave he should be sacked for stupidity, instead of ineptitude.
He did get a lot wrong Alan and you commented ad nauseum about it. So revisionism starts at home. So it suits your argument to say it doesn’t matter. But that facts are it does. In 2014 we were left with a team all at the same age and no replacements. You were one of Daly’s biggest critics during his tenure
And that does have an impact currently because we’ve had to introduce far too many players all at once with very little underage pedigree behind any of them. Add in the current mess where county board aren’t doing anything with a manager where it clearly isn’t working - it’s a shambles.
So you’re guessing. Your initial post suggested you were speaking in facts.
I still maintain that Danny and Ryan are the only real losses. Kelly is still an unknown til he proves otherwise.
Losing those two players wouldn’t have that big an impact on his plans so I’d suggest bringing in young players was always part of his plan this year. Not forced as you indicate.
The young players shouldn’t be encouraged by anyone to start strikes or any of that bullshit. 2017 is what it is and it’s time to move on. The County Board will have to deal with the situation in the years ahead and ask themselves why they did nothing.
But anyone encouraging a group of 18-23 year olds to go on strike needs their heads examined. Let them play . It is what it is now and its an absolute shambles
Read my post. I did not mention young players revolting.
No, I am not guessing - Sutcliffe, Kelly, Ryan and more have all stated they left, I am not sure how anyone can thing that is a guess. If anyone thinks that losing Sutcliffe wouldn’t have a big impact on any managers plans, then to be honest, the rest of the conversation becomes sort of pointless…
Not sure if you’re on the wind up.
No ones arguing that the three lads you mention didn’t leave of their own accord. Your initial post stated that Cunningham was forced to blood the new players. You don’t know that, therefore you’re guessing.
To be honest I am not sure how this can be perceived as a wind up, I thought it was a fairly black and white matter. I said Cunningham is getting credit in some quarters for blooding new players, but my point was that this is not intentional on his part. He would have Kelly, Sutcliffe etc. if he hadn’t alienated them and the headlines would be different.
If established players leave, he has to replace them with new players. If he made a conscious decision to do this, then he could take credit for it (well what credit would be due), but he didn’t make a conscious decision - he just alienated them and had to deal with the consequences.
But, and I have to agree with Bart on this - the real issue isn’t the manager or even the players, it is the DCC fiddling while Rome burns.
Also - the debate on Daly v Cunningham has no foundation, Daly does not have to have been perfect (he wasn’t) for Cunningham not to be working out (he isn’t)/
I think Ger had decided he was going one way on this and the established players were toast anyway- I don;t believe it has anything to do with alienation . As the likes of Uroy has stated they don’t fit the game-plan.
Plus teams evolve over time. Even if he continued playing Daly’s game-plan and had much improved man management techniques - some still would have lost out through natural attrition. I think it’s very difficult at this level to be a starter past 31/32 as it’s professional. I think at club level you can play into your 40’s in contrast. Essentially he’s kept the players he thinks fit his template - and he’ll live and die by that.
He’d have Sutcliffe if that was managed better- however I don’t think Danny is the easiest guy to manage at times but that’s a skill a manager needs to have. The Kelly situation - it’s a desperate injury he’s suffered unfortunately- he’s barely back playing club hurling. It would be debatable whether he’ll revisit previous heights. Would be nice to find out though
Ryan elected to step away and that’s his choice . Probably could have done a job off the bench next year. Paul mixes the great with the not so great in an inconsistent mix that even drove Daly round the bend at times. I’m not sure outside free-taking he’d offer much from play in my view. I think since 2013 he’s found it harder to score from play