Dublin Senior Hurling 2018 - The Pat Gilroy Era


#1102

If I was in a position to be a minor again and if I was on both hurling and football panels I’d have no issue giving up football if it meant playing hurling for Dublin. A good few lads have ambitions of doing one or the other I’d imagine. A few rare cases where lads genuinely want to do it at both codes. The commitment would be colossal in today’s game so I’d imagine eventually players would naturally chose one or the other at senior provided they were still good enough to have such a luxury of choosing having not dedicated themselves to one code up to that point. That’s my view on it at county level.

On the other hand, Paddy Christie or any other county manager, has no right to tell any player he has to give up one code altogether to play for him. While the sport is amateur and no contracts being signed, fundamentally what he does is wrong. It’s a two fingers to the club that the lad is from. A club puts years into players and if one should be good enough to play one code at county level he should not be lost to the club in the other one because some fella who only really cares about the lads future in the short term says so. I’d hope players would stick together on that issue going forward but they probably won’t.


#1103

Nothing to do with my point.

Are you saying that Pillar didn’t stop lads playing club hurling if they wanted to play football for him? And are you saying it didn’t happen the other way in hurling? Because I know for a fact it did and I’m not remotely connected to Na Fianna.

Maybe it’s not club policy underage and maybe it hasn’t happened since the incident I’m aware of, but it did happen.


#1104

Jaysus @Sam_11 the clock only goes back an hour … not 50 years …


#1105

What did I say? I’m confused (again!)!

I was joking there about Na Fianna making it mandatory for the minors to pick one code so as to give other clubs a chance in the minor grades but that it didn’t work because the club won both minor titles but I was only joking and now that I am explaining myself I feel that I was misunderstood which will make me think about trying to be a funny onion going forward.


#1106

This has nothing to do with my point about dual players being forced to play one code or the other. Clocks go forward in spring which would be around the time players choose what code they want to play for the year so I don’t understand why you brought clocks into it…

Only joking of course :blush: I think I missed the joke and took it was a counterbalance argument to my point


#1107

No - I’d be on your line of thinking on this one @Sam_11 !


#1108

The alternate week system is in operation about 30 years or more. Prior to that separate seasons were in operation where juvenile football from under 11 to minor was played from September to end of February and hurling from March to June. It doesn’t take a genius to work out that football was the winner in that situation especially when unplayable pitches in the winter months caused a shut down with back football matches then having to be played on midweek evenings in the Summer months.
Some great DCB people who were around then most of whom have since departed this world fought long and hard to save hurling in Dublin by introducing the alternative week system against a lot of opposition. The big fear at the time was that the ending of concentrated coaching / training in each code over a period of time would see Dublin juveniles be come jacks of all trades and masters of none. Thankfully the results on the field since then have proven that the correct decision was made.


#1109

30 years? It’s only in since 2003. And nearly all of us in the vanguard are still alive and kicking thanks :wink:


#1110

Are you living on another planet? It happens in every dual club in Dublin.


#1111

I had thought was much more recent than 30 years. Credit is due to those who had the vision to implement it


#1112

It may have been reintroduced in 2003 but it definitely was brought in all those years ago. As I said it met with huge opposition at the time and it probably was reversed for a while. The old Juvenile Hurling Board had a huge battle with the North and South City Leagues to get it through then. People like Joe O Hara, Tom Walsh, Denis Skehan, Joe Corcoran etc were very much involved at the time.


#1113

Well it didn’t last long because the exact same problems existed in the nineties and early 2000s. The week on week off wasn’t the big deal. The big deal was putting one committee with people committed to both codes in charge of everything. We haven’t looked back since.


#1114

On the dual thing - the only chance it has of working with any player is that if they are managed as dual players - so their training is tailored towards a guy that needs to maximise his abilities at both. It absolutely means that he won’t be at good at either as he would be if he concentrated on one code alone, but some players are good enough to make the first 15 in both codes and still be 10% off their best. If you have a guy that is the best for his position, should he really not be considered because he isn’t as good as he could be. The Christie at minor thing is mentioned above as an example of managers insisting on single code stuff - but that went horribly wrong.

At senior county level, I think it could be done, but it would probably have to be managed completely differently to how it was ever done before. The player would have to be trained as a dual player and not as a footballer one night and a hurler the next, the whole thing would have to be considered in one package. I assume then managers would be thinking why put themselves to the extra hassle. It would also have to be done from minor onwards or guys would drift away from one code or the other. O Callaghan is only still hurling at the level he is because of Cuala getting an extended run. If his hurling was only one or two championship games a year, he would have slipped back a lot by now. Not alone is it the skill level, you can actually work on that yourself a lot, but it is also how to challenge and how to win ball. If you are away from a game for an extended period you lose that ability to tackle and everything seems faster until you get back to speed. If you see Connolly hurling, he shows great flashes of skill, but rarely if ever completes a tackle in it - yet this is one of his core strengths at football.


#1115

It’s a nice thought but unfortunately a pipedream.


#1116

Con for example at 10% below his max for the country Hurlers would be terrific for Gilroy! But the following week would Jim Gavin except that he is 10% off his best? The simple answer is no chance! As already stated it’s a pipe dream!


#1117

Con himself said in an interview in September that it was a non runner. He’s fairly good at managing himself i think ( he turned down playing for UCD last year and presumably a scholarship to focus on U21’s and Cuala)

Gilroy will be pedantic enough not to even explore that with any dual player in the past. But I’d imagine he’s have a remit to see if Schutte will come back to hurling. .


#1118

Yea coming back to hurling is fine! But it will need to be 100% commitment Or not at all!


#1119

Wifi if you think it can still be done I would suggest that you look at the 2018 inter county fixture plan in both National Leagues and in championships. The day of the dual player is, unfortunately, long gone.


#1120

In 1990, when Denis Walsh and Teddy McCarthy each won All-Ireland medals in both codes, Cork played 5 hurling matches - a Munster quarter-final victory over Kerry and an All-Ireland semi-final victory over Antrim were two of those five games. Considering that the Munster Championship from the mid-80’s through to the early 90’s was really only about Tipperary and Cork, Cork conceivably had only TWO hurling games that you would imagine being close. Likewise in Football, they only had three games in which they would ever have any concerns about not winning that year.

Today’s schedule for a potential dual player would be far, far removed from that, even if only accounting for the amount of training involved.


#1121

And so it should be (the schedule), we need games for the majority not a thinned out schedule to cater for a tiny minority of dual talented freaks! :yum: