2/3 of Judes players are from the 2500 houses of the St Judes parish, from which some players also are in with Faughs and TSS…
Agree with that. Ciaran Murphy wrote a brilliant article along similar lines before the county final http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/ciarán-murphy-castleknock-gaa-club-prove-that-sometimes-less-is-more-1.2870586
The likes of the CPA trying to stop the drop-off in players progressing through to the adult ranks after they’re finished minor is an almost unrealistic goal to have in Dublin.
Some would have you believe that these kids drop off because they find other interests/not committed/poor structures. Although these are factors, the biggest factor is that they probably are no longer getting exposure to the highest level available to them. Not many who get called up to senior squads who come out of minor decline the offer. Maybe the guy who has played Div 1 or 2 all the way up at underage doesn’t fancy having to fight for a place on a team in one of the lower adult leagues. That’s why having more clubs would be a good thing, players won’t drop off if they know they have a realistic chance of representing their club’s flagship team.
Clontarf are seriously going places. Parents don’t want their kids playing rugby anymore and that’s been the kicker . Belgrove have Richie Hogan in there and are sweeping the board at primary school level at hurling. Clontarf for hurling ? - if I said that five years ago you’d be laughed out the door.
two great pitches, massive catchment area, players on county teams at both codes and money to burn.
The history of Dublin GAA is full of names of local clubs who were once powerful and are now struggling or even gone. In the first half of the 20th century on the Southside inner city clubs and clubs from the liberties were the strong of the time. Peadar Mackins, Clanna Gael, Kevins, Inchicore Hibernians, Greenflags St Agnes’ and Rialto Gaels to name a few. Then in the second half of the century it was Crumlin, Ballyfermot Gaels, Good Counsel, An Caislean, Synge St, Sts Michael and James, Churchtown, all of whom were senior clubs in their day. Now in turn the stronger clubs are from further away from the City centre. They should enjoy their good years before the young of their areas move on and leave to set up home further away again and leave the areas that they grew up in as areas of Grandparents like the Crumlin and Drimnagh and Walkinstown are at the moment.
Don’t want to get into an argument on this, but I still think that’s loads of players. Judes, Faughs and TSS are just examples, but from what you’re saying the if 2/3 of Judes (and i’m including Faughs and TSS in this also) come from 2,500 houses, that means 3,750 houses to pick from in total.
That would be say 8-9,000 people?
Divided between say 2 clubs (as Faughs and TSS are both 1 code clubs) is say 4,000 - 4,500 per club?
That is still huge numbers when compared to the number of people in other counties and the number of clubs.
Based on counties populations and the number of clubs in that county Dublin has 1 club to every 14,785 people. There’s only 4 counties that have more than 1 club to 4,500 like the upper end of Judes, Faughs and TSS (Dublin and 3 others in the north) and if we take the lower end of it (4,000) then it brings only 1 more county (Kildare) into the mix.
I would also think - but very much open to correction - that TSS, and possibly Faughs don’t pull may players from St. Judes parish? which means Judes actually have a higher proportion of people to their club.
I know this is a very simplistic way of looking at it, and maybe Dublin clubs aren’t distributed well, but overall I don’t think we’ve near enough clubs for our population!
Back to my earlier point that smaller clubs give players a better chance, for example I know of a club (and i’d say there’s a few clubs like this) who a couple of years ago had 2 years in a row of having 3 U16 teams. Simplistic way of looking at it I know, but that should lead to 6 minor teams? They only had 2!
That’s a 66% drop off in that club across them age groups.
That is far too high if you ask me. I doubt any smaller clubs suffer anything like these numbers?
And yes, before anyone says it, I am from a small club!!
No there are 2500 houses in judes parish entirely
I never really understand people talking about catchment areas in dublin and big clubs and why there aren’t more teams etc., particularly on the southside
Look at us (Cabinteely) - within a 5-10 minute max driving radius there are the playing pitches of 10 teams (us, Shankill, Geraldine Morans, Cuala, Kilmacud Crokes, Bray Emmets, St Fergals Bray, Kilmacanogue, Stars of Erin, Naomh Olafs), at least 2 of which would be considered “massive” and the rest either small (one or 2 adult teams with either no underage structure or a small underage structure) or medium (2 or more adult teams and a wider underage structure).
The size of these teams change over time for various reasons - we had 20 combined adult mens and boys teams in the mid-to-late 1990s, the ladies have a similar number now and we just have one adult means team for example. We’ve also had 2 amalgamations in the last 15 years (Shankill, mainly for hurling reasons, in the early 2000s, who have since reformed as growing football club but lost their main pitch in the process; and St Francis Gaels (the Microsoft team that played out of Olaf’s grounds before they joined up with us in the mid 2000s).
Reasons around why clubs are not growing and thriving in an area which is, by the numbers a huge catchment area (and which much to my chagrin is often referred to in the press (and left uncorrected) by Eugene Magee as an area with no clubs between Kilmacud and Cuala) include:
- the schools in the area are either gaelic playing dominated by a small number of larger clubs where keen players are directed to the associated bigger clubs (to be fair we did benefit from this ourselves in the 90s), or not gaelic playing at all (with soccer and rugby predominant) and therefore a very small contributor of players
- I don’t think there’s anywhere else in the county that has as much optionality in terms of soccer and rugby as competing sports at schoolboy and adult level
- the vicinity of the area and the ease of access to the m50 means a huge number of country players commute to dublin in the week and drive home for the weekend for matches, who might have stayed up in Dublin in the past
I’m therefore not entirely convinced there is huge growth potential here for say 7 clubs on an independent strategic basis, short of maybe a few amalgamations to provide better playing and clubhouse facilities. Numbers of players in clubs will get bigger and smaller and bigger and smaller again as demographics change and time moves on. A small club team one year in ten years time could be massive, and vice versa, without any real rhyme or reason to it other than a bit of luck and few things coming together at once. Similarly a very big club can shrink very fast if there are a few high profile dropouts / transfers or if main sources of player supply like local schools divert elsewhere.
I think the most anyone can do is continue to promote their club and once you have at least one team playing on a regular basis, it’s an achievement and something to work from. Over and above that, if a few parents playing or former players can get their kids together to form a few teams and then bring in mates and school mates you can start to grow an underage structure again, but failing that just having at least one adult team playing, irrespective or results on the pitch, is a result in general.
Not teaching at the moment - gone out to the big bad business world
That’ll hurt them if he doesn’t come back. He had them flying.
definitely not money to burn anyway
Or not nearly enough clubs in the other areas?
I see TSS at u15 have gone to Div 3. They were Div 1 at u13, they hoovered up any Judes player and Judes ended up Div 9 I think. Not one player crossed the bridge as you put it. So maybe the problem is not with the so called super clubs!!!
And the likelihood is that both tss and judes at u16 will be Division 4 which is the lowest division judes will play u16 at for the next 10 years. Numbers and standards booming up there now.
So who’s fault is it???
Tell me, I wouldn’t know
Well it’s not on the side of the bridge I reside on😉.
To be honest I don’t know what point you are making or asking
I’ll leave it then.
fair enough message me if you want as I’m lost…
You’re a lost cause