Champions League 2018/19


#462

Nice deflection in mentioning Heysel by the way. That’s what the authorities did all them years ago too and it was a handy deflection from what really happened at Hillsborough by just pointing towards the hooliganism at Heysel.

14 Liverpool fans were found guilty of manslaughter and were jailed for their part in the Heysel tragedy. All of the blame for the tragedy was apportioned to Liverpool fans initially but in the aftermath the investigation found that some culpability lay with the authorities, and the crumbling state of the Heysel stadium. The club have done all they can over the years to try repair relations with Juventus and honour and remember the victims of Heysel. It was an awful tragedy and it shouldn’t have happened but sadly it did. What else do you think could and should be done?

Let’s be really clear here, Heysel happened mainly because of hooliganism and in part to a crumbling stadium. Hillsborough was caused by the failure of control by the South Yorkshire Police. The most recent coroner’s report found that the supporters were unlawfully killed due to grossly negligent failures by police and ambulance services to fulfil their duty of care to the supporters. The design of the stadium was also found to be to blame. The supports were completely exonerated from blame for the tragedy.

The ‘Always the Victim’ slur is 100% linked to Hillsborough and the city and families of the dead have had to deal with that slur for almost 30 years.


#463

Do you think the sentences handed out for the Heysel Stadium convictions were equitable to what happened that night?


#464

What a paragraph. I have given my views on Hillsborough. They are unequivocal.

As for crumbling stadium - Christ it wasn’t built for a marauding riot!

Listen @HawkEye - do me a favour and stop engaging. It’s really making me ill.


#465

Bill Buford among the thugs is the best book written about hooliganism. Written around the mid 80s to just after Italia 90 it’s a great insight into that behavior.


#466

What in the name of jaysus has that got to do with anything and how has it any relevance to the conversation I was having with @Dub09?

For the record I think most sentences handed down in Ireland are pretty lenient. I don’t know the first thing about the Belgian legal system.


#467

You said that Liverpool fans were convicted and jailed. Do you think that met the justice requirements of the fans who lost their lives and their grieving families? As I said earlier, I believe the sentences were a joke.


#468

Read the independent investigation. The ‘crumbling stadium’ words are contained in that, not my words. It doesn’t excuse the fans behaviour and nor should it.

90% of what you post on here are jokes or attempts at that. I think your original ‘Always the Victim’ comment was an attempt at humour (albeit one in poor taste.). Instead of just admitting that you doubled down with more nonsense and deflection.

I’ll happily not engage any further.


#469

It most certainly wasn’t. End of. Happily.


#470

I merely stated the facts when Heysel and Hillsborough were compared. One was caused by hooliganism and the other was caused by police failures but blamed on fans as a cover up for almost 30 years.

For what it’s worth no I don’t think the sentences were harsh enough. But I don’t know the full facts of the 14 convictions either.

So we’re in agreement the sentences weren’t harsh enough, what now?


#471

They weren’t nearly harsh enough but I don’t see too many campaigns for justice on that front.

The sad thing is, is that there are people in Dublin who feel far more passionate about justice for Hillsborough victims than they do for victims of the 1974 bombings or the Stardust, purely out of “love” for their “football club”.


#472

That is some stretch to somehow be p1ssed off with a football club in Liverpool or the city itself because of the justice or sympathy they received relative to the lack of justice or sympathy etc in two entirely unrelated incidents in another country.

Anyway, I certainly am not going to start discussing the 1974 bombing or stardust in a CL thread. Happy to give them both the respect they deserve in the appropriate forum.


#473

Where did I say I was pissed off with Liverpool football club or the city?


#474

Well it looked like you had some issue, to jump in on the Heysel reference and be at pains to point out the lack of justice for the families etc. If you don’t then fair enough I stand corrected.

Anyway look, I’m done discussing this any longer. I’m sure plenty others have a pain in their hole reading the back and forth over this. I think I made fairly rational points earlier on.

Let’s get back to discussing football in the thread.


#475

If you look back, you will see that I have said that I really like watching LFC (or words to that effect) playing the way they do for Klopp. I have described Klopp as a breath of fresh air with his honesty and enthusiasm and I also believe he comes across as quite humble (and contrast all of that that with his counterpart at Man Utd).
That said, the one city in the UK (and I’ve been in quite a few) where (some) locals had issues with my accent and where I was from was Liverpool. But I wouldn’t taint a whole city because of that.


#476

So… who’s goal was better, Zidane in Hampden in 2001, or Bale’s last year?

#changethetopic


#477

They could tell you were from Edenmore?


#478

:joy:


#479

People can have different experiences of a place and turn them off…I’ve United supporting friends who prefer to fly into John Lennon airport and stay in Liverpool city when attending games at OT.


#480

#481

Schalke v Manchester City
Atletico Madrid v Juventus.
Manchester United v PSG
Tottenham v Borussia Dortmund
Lyon v Barcelona
Roma v Porto
Ajax v Real Madrid
Liverpool v Bayern Munich