Brexit


#966

Obviously it’s separated by water :joy::joy::joy:


#967

It would be much easier if we gave them Donegal and took Fermanagh - much straighter line …


#968

We’re going to need a bigger boat(s)


#970

Unionists, Brexiteers and mad Brits in general are missing the whole point of this really. This isn’t a negotiation on Ireland or what we want, this is a negotiation about the UKs future relationship with the EU. If they don’t want any relationship, they can walk away and not worry about Ireland or anything.

But our politicians do need to get down in the dirt sometimes and negotiate on the level of Paisley et al. Some of the people in the Ch 4 video are too thick to get subtleties and nuance. You can’t make the mistake Clinton did in the US election and believe people will see through rubbish, they don’t, they believe what they are programmed to believe. Our politicians need to skip over the UK politicians and the UK right wing papers and let their public know that
a) they can’t have an open border without a customs union or they are breaking WTO rules.
b) They also can’t have an open border without a customs union, because the likes of me who imports stuff from Asia, will legally flood them with all sort of shite to make as much money as possible.
c) They can’t close the border because a lot of the GFA is based on EU integration and free flow of goods people.
d) They can’t close the border because people like me who live on the border won’t accept it, so good luck to them trying to maintain it.
e) There is the issue of the common free travel area, which they can’t actually do away with as hundreds of thousands of six county citizens are ROI citizens, so there is no great solution for that from their point of view.
f) so basically a customs union with the six counties, or with the UK is the only game in town.

So as much as Varadaker and others like to talk about the historical complexities of a hard border, that is just going over the heads of most of the UK populace. They are used to being addressed by the likes of Boris Johnston… It is a credit to our politicians, and I don’t praise FG in particular lightly, but when the world is scrambling madly towards the bottom, Ireland at least is maintaining some level of decent political standard - but that doesn’t always work when dealing internationally.

But I hope the Irish populace take on this lesson that when push comes to shove, or even a good bit before that, the people of GB have completely no respect for the idea of Irish nationhood and even less for the rights of Northern Nationalists.


#971

Not sure anyone needs reminding!!!


#972

Asian imports Wifi ?
Do tell more!


#973

Agreed with all that til you concluded with the big republican/Irish nationhood climax. So tell me, how do you know what all the people of GB think? And why would you think most people in GB would know, or more realistically prioritise much about the needs or basic cultural motives of Irish people any more than we would know or prioritise theirs? Time to finally grow up pixies.


#974

Of course I don’t know what they all individually think, but I know what the majority think on Ireland and Brexit because of a) who they elect to lead them and b) because they voted for Brexit in the first place.

I don’t expect them to give a s***e about Ireland, as I don’t particularly about them. But what they must care about, or at least should, in a modern democracy is that there are hundreds of thousands of Nationalists in the six counties who are being taken out of the EU against their will and are now finding themselves separated from their fellow countrymen not just by virtue of being in a different political entity but now in a totally different entity with no shared legal system or human rights charter. Apart from the natural injustice in that, even though four of the six counties have a nationalist majority they are being taken out by a gerrymandered majority, the British signed up to protect the rights of nationalists through the Good Friday Agreement, they now want to renege on that. So almost by definition, if someone says they are going to do something, and then decide not to because they have decided that other interests supersede the ones they have agreed with you - they are saying they don’t particularly care about you.


#975

Precision engineered parts BelfastDub - nothing dodgy :grinning:


#976

Like these?

image


#977

Very funny!


#978

Jesus I wondered what those yokes were for? They kept saying must be able to reach the US, but I told them to use DHL :grinning: I see now I misunderstood!!


#979

Good man, Sammy… off with you, back to the 1970’s.
Actually, do us a favour and pull the plug on Mrs May.


#980

New artificial mickey for the Kim fella.


#981

So what you meant was ‘a majority of people in GB’? In fact not even that is so, as many don’t vote, and who can know what their views on NI would be? And many dont/wouldn’t know or perhaps understand. And of those who vote its not the priority for them, understandably. Just like it wouldn’t be to you or me if Cork was a statelet, all joking aside.

The fact is that NI is a minority issue, whether that be what most Nationalists or most Unionists want. And people vote for all manner of reasons. Only 51% voted for Brexit, and the overall turnout was not high if I remember rightly. The question really is, why are so many people in the UK disaffected from politics? You could ask the same in many ‘western democracies’, polarisation is the main factor that will change that, the next UK election/referendum etc will surely have a high turnout.

Finally, even those British who really care about NI one way or another look at the Nationalists and see people who always wanted out and who have always been antagonistic towards them. Some of them probably hope that this situation somehow brings about a united Ireland, for whatever reasons, mainly just to be rid of the nationalist issue. Some of them understand the current issues for those people but why would an EU hater vote to stay in because of the wishes of a minority? It’s mostly not so personal, simply exigency. And as predicted at the time, every effort is happening to adjust the situation to accommodate the needs of the minorities. None of that of course changes the fact that many in Britain are antagonistic to NI nationalists, or dismissive, and dismissive of Ireland. That we always knew


#982

I actually wasn’t really referring to the majority or minority in himdight, I was referring to the body politic there and the associated structures ( civil service etc.). I think it is news to some people here that they are antagonistic towards Ireland. We are grand when we know our place, but once we step out of it, things turn nastier.

Of course I didn’t expect them to consider Ireland in their vote, but they should have, or at least their politicians shouldn’t have been so blasé about the ease at which future cooperation could happen. They are considering it now!

But, that is of no importance now, that bit is done. But the huge misunderstanding out there is that these are Brexit negotiations, they are not remotely Brexit negotiations. If they want to leave, they can leave in the morning and it won’t cost them a cent. These are negotiations about the extent of the re-entry / cooperation afterwards, and on that we have a veto. So someone above advised we get real (I thought here in Dundalk we did that a while ago, but no matter). The reality is that if the UK ( if they intend to stick with that) want to work with the EU they have to play ball with us and that is the reality.


#983

Of course they want to work with the EU, economically they have to. The border question, and everything that’s behind it(literally and figurative!) is now an opportunity for them, to start settling something that in truth drags them down. It’s a gamble but the outcome will probably benefit them in some way overall. I know that’s a very simplistic view but I can see a scenario where they end up with a lot less responsibility for NI and the EU ends up with alot more.
Leaving aside the Little Englanders cohort, and the factor of oil in the North Sea, I wonder how many in England really think they’d be better off without the three ‘principalities’. This could be Spain in reverse


#984

#985

Would be easier for them just to stay at this stage with the exemptions they’re looking for


#986