Can see yet another heave against him and Tom Watson as the front runner to replace him. He’s got huge grassroots support but dont think the grassroots are as anti European as Corbyn has always been.


More waffle, more refusal to address the facts of the matter, and Wikipedia as a source. I think we’re done here


Socialism fails because it runs counter to observable human nature and because it stifles innovation. For now capitalism for all its flaws is the best form we have.

Also just because we live in an capitalist society doesent mean we should strive to be kinder to our environment. Wars…well wars have been fought long before capitalism and will likely be fought after it.


I don’t think actual socsliam has a great track record and capitalism, while obviously flawed, actually works.

There are different forms of capitalism though, there’s rampant capitalism like in the USA, where the wealth divide is vast, and more social democracies like in Scandinavia where theres free healthcare & the education system is far better. I’d prefer the ‘we’re in this together’ model to the ‘you’re on your own’ model.


Social welfare exists in all/most capitalist countries and it’s a form of socialism isn’t it?

I do believe if you work your b011x off and are smart then you deserve to be successful and there should be no limit on the amount of $$ you can earn. Socialism looks to spread “excessive” wealth among the poorer masses…good in theory but large capitalist companies that make profit, expand and hire more people etc…now its far from perfect but capitalism has brought millions into the middle class.

The trouble I see where we could be in trouble is my generation will likely be worse off then our parents…


You mean you are running the fcuk away! Well keep running. I thought Wikipedia would be an easy place for you to do a bit of reading but it seems that you are above that! Imagine! You don’t appear to know much about geopolitics. Try ‘Hegemony or Survival’ by Chomsky and get back to me. As of now, you are the one waffling. If you think the U.S. didn’t play a central role in Venezuela, you know less than I thought.


Tayto, pensions, social welfare, disability allowances, a state bus service, rail service, credit unions, co-op movements etc, these are all socialist. We take them for granted until we dont have them. Many countries privatised services such as rail, and disaster ensued! I’m not saying we should all be driving ladas and on the same pay!


Yeah our rail service is in great shape - will ya stop. Every time they try to change things the unions kick up, they strike, lose another few million in a few days and then nothing really changes and the tax payers and commuters pick up the strike tab and the pay increases and the sh1t service continues. As is the case in many other State run ‘services’ … No need for privatization when the taxpayer and end user continue to pay the tab.


If you had your way, only profitable bus and rail routes would run and fcuk everybody else. We privatised Eircom. Huge success that was. Look at British Rail. Privatised. Now a complete fcuking shambles. Yes let’s get the rest of our services asset stripped. Stamp out the unions. As Maggie said, there’s no such thing as society.




Presume your referring to some sort of social darwinism here.

I certainly wouldn’t be an advocate for communism but Marx’s historical materialism put that one to bed imo.


If you find any credible evidence from anywhere, that the privatisation of British Rail was a success, I’ll throw a hundred quid behind the bar in Na Fianna for you (for February!)


I never said it was a success. I said ours is a completely exorbitant shambles and it’s semi State.

ps Still on the gargle - only wimps and poor people quit for January.


Thanks, you have just me self aware.


Nah - you’re a wimp.


as far as i know, ye can have a free market (is it ever really free?) without being capitalist. those scando countries everyone references as models all operate a free market but are no way capitalist. same way as sharing the tax revenue around doesn’t make you’re a commy even if the yanks would have you believe so. 10 yrs of that place and their “freedoms” was enough to convince me that the last thing we need here is the greed and scumbaggery that gets excused in the name of a dollar. unfortunately we seem bent on aping it at every turn.
btw, i checked with the wife who got f88ked out of caracas 20 yrs ago for giving guff and she reckons the yanks are up to their neck in it there, good and bad. have to say, that was my impressions of the place too.


A poor wimp.


You mean it fails to factor in human greed which ultimately corrupts the system as opposed to capitalism


That’s what i’m saying though, you need a socially responsible form of capitalism, not unfettered profiteering, but not full on socialism either. Somehow the excess of capitalism need reigning in but not to the point where hard work gains no reward.


JJF we’ll rob a bank …and go drinking in Na Fianna’s bar…in February!