Brexit


#2376

Only because you’re a bit slow. No offense taken.


#2377

Social media have made it easier to manipulate on a larger scale. C.F. Brexit and Trump.


#2378

There’s supposed to be a spectrum of traditional media to balance out things, but there’s no doubting Murdoch has far too much of the market share in the Uk. National broadcasters are ‘supposed’ to give balance in debates and give everyone their fair share of airtime. Political advertising in offline media is strictly regulated to reign in blatant lies & propaganda. Who pays for ads is easier to monitor so that one party can’t monopolize publications. Keeping the whole spending in check is the only way to make it fair. Of course you can argue how well balanced it is but compared to fox or the Brit tabloids we get a less blatantly right/left wing coverage.

Genuinely think some of you are not up to speed with how effective this social media, fake news strategy is. For example isis recruited 1000s of westerners through online propaganda & trolls/twitter accounts. If you didn’t know it for a fact you wouldn’t believe it was possible. Is it only social media? No, they take the West’s many flaws & atrocities committed by the west and use those to appeal to and radicalize people through social media. Isis are an extreme example but Russia have perfected this strategy to attack the west.

I suspect this strategy is a lot more effective then some of you think. If I was running a campaign now I sure as hell would not spend on traditional media. And if a foreign country wants to help, it is all too easy for them to buy ads spreading lies, they can show these to as many people as you want using their untracked budget. Isis used handlers to interact with people online, to push them in the right direction. Likewise the Russian trolls inhabit social media and comment sections making contrary comments, whatabouttery, spreading more fake news and interacting with the opposition opinion to argue the toss.

So basically all the rules we have to make elections fair can be subverted. That’s why this is so dangerous. Election rules which are there to make an electionfair and proper & Democratic. Once one side throws out the rule books it is not democracy.


#2379

I disagree, MSM have manipulated people’s views for years. Social media helps people reinforce their views no matter how ignarent tgey are.


#2380

Not entirely sure that is accurate. Lefties like me read the Irish times/guardian. Right wingers read the telegraph/daily heil. The bubble works in both formats.


#2381

That’s more how UK people do it. In Ireland it’s generally INM, mail and the Sun. All three have right wing agendas with views so similar you could throw a towel over them. In fairness to The Irsh times they have moved liberal but they are not lefties.


#2382

Left of centre i’d Say. But people read to have their opinions reinforced rather than challenged.


#2383

Grand.


#2384

I’m sure it’s been pointed out before but does nobody else appreciate the irony of the Russians using the Tories to cripple the UK and EU rather than Labour or the ‘hard left’??


#2385

When gread is a primary motivator and a core of their electorate are blind to that it makes sence really. Thank good for our PR system could you image what the Russian could do with FF.


#2386

I appreciate how effective it is but that’s because I appreciate why it’s effective - it’s targeting those disaffected by the current system/ mode of doing things - ie neoliberalism - plus a cohort of retards who think they are rebelling, this is their rocker phase.

And rather than think they are using the fair rules of electioneering they are using the deliberate gaps or dead space created already (see Super PACs, in the home of democracy for example) - plus getting ahead of the curve, and merely using first what history has proven that mainstream parties would themselves use if available.

Democracy is in a state, no doubt, these guys are capitalising on it.

As for the rulebook and democracy: the fundamental basis of Trump and Brexit is a total breakdown in trust in government. And that’s solely down to successive governments repeatedly breaking the rules. People aren’t stupid. (Well they are but they’ll follow someone else, a Trump or Farage, or a Hitler or a …)


#2387

It does, and my reading falls into that trap as much as anyone’s. The world has gone very compartmentalized. Although what we don’t really have any other perspective on from the media really is a pro nationalist (Irish) view point. There is the Irish News in the North, which is editorially sound (in my viewpoint), but it’s just a poor paper otherwise. The only media coverage that anyway questions the British hegemony in the North is actually the liberal British ones (Guardian etc.).

But as we see in the US, politicians only have to aim their policies at their base in a non PR environment. This discourages any compromises rather then vice versa. We are going to see some mad stuff in future presidential elections here too because someone is going to run on a platform that appeals to a small minority and hope everyone else has their vote split because of the amount of candidates. PR will stop them being elected, but they will get a big platform


#2388

You’d wonder how much the anti-church thing of the left impacts on its standing with the electorate.


#2389

I remember watching interview with a man in his 60’s on Sky News about why he voted to support Brexit. He stated it took him nearly 4hrs one evening to get across London, he blamed it on all the foreigners living in London…


#2390

Well there’s no accounting for the loonies. Also the anti establishment vote is strong when you have some c**t like Cameron in charge that long.


#2391

Spent the last 18mths dealing with Local Government in UK, and at a high level. They are scared sh*tlees about Brexit. One of the biggest concerns is around Social Care and getting skilled workers in this area. Some of the local authorities in UK will have average shortfall of up to 60%, and it’s down to non-nationals leaving because of Brexit.


#2392

Spoke with someone in their national crime agency recently, she said it’s going to be a clusterfuck as well. There’s no way people voting had an accurate picture of what they were voting for.


#2393

#2394

Yes but they are not imegrants they are expats, looking tools


#2395