Brexit


#2356

You can keep repeating the same mantra and lies endlessly it doesn’t make them true. Your wrong in your assessment of Russia, Brexit and Trump, backing it up with propaganda and hearsay online opinion does not equate to putting forward a factual argument. Can you accept that people may have an informed opinion different to yours and that their choice is legitimate. You stated Trump had an affair on his wife, which makes him untrustworthy and not fit to hold the office of u.s president. Does that apply to Clinton and have you argued that the clintons are unfit for office. If you have standards and values why not apply them equally and fairly across the board and not just to those who are of a different persuasion to you. Where is your condemnation for the atrocities being committed in Yemen. I would ask you to look at how the eu structural projects came about and the relationship with the Germany car industry. If your in favour of a United States of Europe and an end of national sovereignty then I understand your opposition to Brexit but if your opposed, then I recommend you read up on the E.U.


#2357

It’s clear we won’t agree that this is a/ nothing new (in broad terms of influencing elections/ referendums, the means have changed though) and b/ the existing system (that worked so well as long as it produced the right result) created Trump and Brexit - although we do agree that Trump is appalling, a likely criminal and won the election with assistance from the Russians (by releasing Clinton’s secrets while keeping schtum on Trump’s), and Brexit is a disaster based on lies and will damage everybody.


#2358

Care to expand?


#2359

Tayto said if for me. This is a different level of interference. Very different.


#2360

Who determines the acceptable level of interference? Is it based on the result? Ever hear of Allende? Ever read about Iran?


#2361

Yes but none of that compares with buying pretty much psychological profiles of millions of people and hiring thousands of people to go online and attempt to change people’s votes, based on knowledge that you have about them- that they are unaware of. If you don’t think that we have reached a new level of interference, fine. We could have a poll, which I would win, but the Russians might interfere on your behalf!


#2362

You think the Facebook thing - which I understand was based on Obama’s campaign to a degree, or was certainly influenced by it - is worse than armed coups to take down democratically elected governments? Kind of says it all.

Perhaps you should ask why democracy - the current expression of it, the ‘leave it to beaver, lowest common denominator, all I want is a beer and a car’ mongo version - is so easily usurped by merely projecting people’s own preferences back at them. Or perhaps it’s self-evident.


#2363

The means are a lot less transparent than before. A lot easier to put false/misleading messages in front of a lot of people now. Putin hardly sent over lads to put up posters in the 80/90s :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:


#2364

But that is just it, this is an unarmed coup. It is happening in our nearest and dearest neabour, and is going to have a massively negative effect on us as a result. Well played mr putin.


#2365

Ha, no. Then again, some dodgy cats amongst Bertie’s mob.


#2366

No doubting that. The Healy Rae’s are the perfect reflection of the flaws in democracies.


#2367

Not quite, to put all the blame on Putin/ Facebook etc is to ignore - at peril, because if it’s not acknowledged and tackled it’s all in vain, and likely to manifest itself again but in other ways - that Brexit is a response to the EU and what it has become. Russia/ Boris etc pushed on - and lied/ cheated/ brides etc - against an open door.


#2368

Agree with that, it’s not all down to the Russians, but they played their part and for a reason. A weaker EU is no harm to them.

the leave campaign was run very cleverly, they used emotion rather than facts and they systematically broke spending and campaign co ordination laws. The Eu is far from Perfect, but a Uk in is much better for us than a Uk out. That’s why I am anti brexit. But the damage they are going to inflict on their economy with a no deal is crazy.

There’s a direct correlation between the areas hardest hit by austerity and the leave vote being highest.

All in it was the perfect storm.

But the notion that it was a fair vote has been proven to be false. The leave campaigns broke the law. That’s a fact.


#2369

Love this. Such an internetty debate post. So to criticize trump for lying about his affairs I have to drag up bill clintons affair from 20-30 years ago? Otherwise i’m A hypocrite. :roll_eyes::joy::joy:

You keep saying this like I am pro Clinton. I’m not. But trump is a corrupt madman who is a danger to democracy & the west.

To say brexit is a mess I have to bring up Yemen? :joy::joy::joy::roll_eyes:

So which bit am I wrong about? The majority of the here-say I have posted about trump has been corroborated to date.

Are you disputing the electoral commission’s findings on russia’s Role in brexit? Including loads of the anti Eu ads which they ran? That the main financial backer of brexit met the Russian ambassador a dozen times in the run up to the election? That’s all fine yea. Nothing suspicious there. That Cambridge Analytica illegally harvested data and used it to target people etc etc.


#2370

I I think you’re focusing on how this result was arrived at rather than what it says or means.

That people could vote for either speaks volumes of where we are at.


#2371

It does indeed. It’s all a shambles. Media, social media, anti media, anti establishment blah blah blah.

I mean isis radicalizing people on YouTube, nazis in America … what the actual hell is going on.


#2372

What is different is that it is HIDDEN! Do you get me now?


#2373

As John Lennon said, there’s Nazis in the bathroom.

It’s all fucked up.


#2374

No, no offense but I think you’re talking nonsense.


#2375

How is that different to a media monopoly that has massive influence and is biased towards the social class of its owner. If anything social media has given far greater availability of different ideas to people and that’s why the MSM are attacking it.