Brexit


#2336

Momentum, the group behind Jeremy Corbyn’s rise to leader of the UK Labour Party, are apparently canvassing opinion amongst members with a view to pushing forward the agenda on a 2nd EU referendum. This could be a game changer.


#2337

Someone should write a treatise on democracy in modern times - just to codify it for clarity’s sake, and capture it for prosperity.


#2338

Only becuase they’re finally realising they’re fucked if they’re not Anti Brexit


#2339

Democracy is ok as long as it goes our way. Look I think they are nuts for leaving but they have voted…end of story.

The left are still moaning about Trump getting elected which he did so democratically…it’s such a bore at this stage.


#2340

Trump got elected it doesn’t mean he can’t be criticised or there won’t be further ellections. Democracy is as much about the right of people to change their mind in futute votes as it is the previous ellections.


#2341

Is the correct answer


#2342

3 million less votes than his opponent is not democratic in my view


#2343

There is no democracy.


#2344

Ummm the leave campaign used stolen data, illegal tactics and illegal overspending. Democractic decision me hole.


#2345

It’s the electrocial system and this the rules. It was designed so that draws like NY and California don’t have extreme voting power over less populous states.

Dems F ed up as Hillary is despised and here’s the thing if Trump and Hillary ran against each other again tomorrow, Trump would win.

I’ve a cousin who was in the Military and you shouldn’t underestimate the Bengazai shambles which Obama and Hillary were a part of.


#2346

So people in less populated states votes are worth more. Some system of democracy.

There’s also the minor matter of Trump & his campaign conspiring with a foreign & hostile power, to get dirt on his opponent to swing the election which is illegal. But that doesn’t seem to bother people for some reason. :roll_eyes:

An election is NOT democratic if one side uses illegality to win votes. This really is quite simple.

Benghazi? Seriously? Whatabouttery at its finest.


#2347

But they’re fine with a five time Draft Dodging cùnt who mocks POWs. Says it all about them TBH.

Clinton was grilled for 11hrs over Benghazi with no further outcome.


#2348

Not more votes but it’s a weighted system. Remember the union of the US states did not happen dancing around a camp fire…it was a bloody civil war.

Have you been to America? The hatred for Hillary among the military and middle class is there to see. You have to visit the red neck states to truly appreciate why trump was elected. I’m not a republican, I’m just trying to give an insight


#2349

The results of some votes and elections are questionable but others aren’t and therefore they should be rerun, or are at least less legitimate.

Trump was voted in under the US voting system, it’s only a problem now that someone like him got in. (And set aside the fact Russia released authentic emails, they didn’t fabricate anything.) The argument goes that Brexit was won due to misinformation, dodgy money and misuse of data. Is that a new phenomenon? Elections are run on a platform of untruths or fanciful policies, and are usually/ always won by the biggest spenders, and who don’t always declare where the money came from (i think the Facebook thing is merely a modern twist on old practices).

People are now looking at the electoral system in the US and the 50+1 rule in the UK (considering a requirement of >60% in referendums). Likewise rerunning votes based on new information, or recalling politicians who don’t fulfill their mandate is proper. A form of direct democracy rather than what we have had until now.

But the point is: people/ voters/ governments were happy with the old system - systems that allowed and produced Trump and Brexit - until it no longer produced the result they wanted. One good thing of Trump etc is that it has forced a period of reflection, problem is can we trust that we’ll learn the lessons.


#2350

I realize she is hated, which is why she was a terrible choice as candidate.


#2351

Can’t agree. Both trump and brexit campaigns broke the law. You break the rules in sport the result is disqualified. No one starts arguing how much improvement lance Armstrong achieved from cheating. He is stripped of his wins. And rightfully so

There’s always a few exaggerations and lies in politics but the systematic truth bending and “fake news” aka misinformation has gone to a whole new level and genuinely threatens the democratic process. Saying this is normal is disingenuous. Media try to provide balance but it’s pointless when one side are happy to blatantly & shamelessly lie to the public. They are gamining the media.

First it was no Russian meetings, then it was oh those Russians, then it was about adoptions, now it’s collusion is not a crime. Why so many lies? Because knows he cheated and it is a federal offense. it was not the content of the emails as such which was the controversy, they just got to harp on about her hiding stuff and being a security risk and flog her for that. But they conspired with the Russian on how to release the emails (via Wikileaks) to cause maximum damage. And then tried to ease sanctions in return. That people just accept that now shows how they have normalized this kind of behaviors. The gop used to be the party of law and order. What a laugh.


#2352

Yes it’s like the modern day equivalent of devs owning the irish press😏


#2353

JUSt like the stormy Daniel affair. I don’t care that he cheated on all his wives. But it should rule him out as a trustworthy individual. The lies then should mean he is a laughing stock. I never had an affair with her. I didn’t know about the hush money. The hush money for the affair I didn’t have was paid by my lawyer. My lawyer is a liar, the money which I didn’t know about for the affair I didn’t have came from campaign fund. Oh that’s illegal. I mean I paid my lawyer back for the hush money which I didn’t know about for the affair I didn’t have.

I know people are sick of politics but this is not like normal politics. It is not acceptable. The lies follow the exact same pattern as his Russian denials and the crimes he had committed trying to cover them up. He just avoids interviews where he’ll be challenged so never has to face a grilling.

The brexiteers are the same, they just lie, blatantly and brazen it out. Refuse to do interviews where they’ll be challenged by someone who knows what they’re talking about. And on they drive towards their illegal result where they systematically cheated the result helped by Russian misinformation & troll armies who made up and spreading fake anti Eu propaganda. This is not normal and it is not acceptable. I suspect we’ll learn in the future how effectively this works, but for now the West is being hammered by putin and his mob.


#2354

Just not true.


#2355

At least they’re Being made flesh out their ideas now … so a hard border then.