Anti-Social Scumbags


#424

Who says you can’t discuss it? We are discussing it. Some lads on here seem to think any opinion that disagrees with their opinion on a subject means “they can’t discuss it”. This is confusing debate with non-acceptance of an alternative point of view.

And Ireland’s emigrant history is in my opinion very relevant to this discussion. If anything it backs up what some of you are saying, in some ways - awful social problems as a result of emigration en masse. But I guess it doesn’t count to some people because all that’s really remembered is how great the Irish have done in America and elsewhere, so there’s a nice nostalgic glow about something that was in it’s early decades frought with terrible struggle and suffering


#425

My line of work requires an apprenticeship. I can basically name my price for work in multinational companies these days. It’s great for me but disastrous for future job prospects as they simply can’t get the workers. Ireland has had a snobby attitude towards trades in the last few years and parents push kids into college degrees when they should be advising them that there is other options. I was asked to try help find two people to fill roles in my department and there is nobody out there for the jobs. We are short as a result. Alexion had a trade show in Ireland and in Europe trying to get people to move to Ireland to work in their new plant. Just got enough people in Ireland with the skills required.


#426

They will obviously not keep doing that ad infintum, just as Germany didn’t with Syrians, they pretty much stopped after a certain point.

Sure people misinterpret things on both sides of the debate, if there are only two sides, which there aren’t, there’s many sides. THis debate is fine as far as I can see, it’s very good in fact to see people thrashing it all out here. Then we can all agree to disagree and move on.


#427

Look at some of the comments. Facts described as BS by one poster. Three other posters in effect saying Irish people emigrated 100 years ago so essentially we’ve to just accept it now. That’s not discussion. It’s shutting down discussion. As I’ve said we need immigration but it needs to be standards based


#428

In my previous job many moons ago , the company I worked for couldn’t source enough skilled irish workers so they setup recruitment in South Africa , India & the UK . It was crazy to think they couldn’t find suitable employees here at the time of the boom .The amount they brought over was mental .


#429

Fair point, we were never that strong on trades, but would it be true to say that trades have declined hugely in most if not all “first world countries” due to the change in the nature of work/industry/commerce etc? Whereas trades wll still be hugely required in more developing countries, as you would expect?


#430

How exactly is it shutting down the discussion ?
It’s just another angle to the discussion which isn’t been talked about .


#431

Some posters have described things I’ve said as bullshit too, hasn’t stopped me debating, so why should it stop anyone else. Nobody’s got a monopoly on difficulties with interpersonal behaviour in debates.

No it doesn’t mean “just accept it”, it’s in response to people saying “Sweden is doomed” “we’re all doomed” because of the migration that’s happened so far, it’s saying, “this has happened before, you can’t just say ‘it has to be stopped’, we’ve dealt with it before, lots of places have, and it can be dealt with again, in many different ways.” It’s not saying it’s not a big problem, it’s a huge problem, there’s no argument about that.


#432

It is being discussed, I just am not sure why it is being discussed on a thread that started with a shop robbery - but now I am continuing that, so I can’t complain.

We don’t take 100,000 people a year - we have a net migration of about 20,000. People come and people go, but the net gain is about 20K. Of these, the vast, vast majority are EU nationals in which case we have as equal a right to go to their countries if we want.

Our intake of non EU people is very small. In my view it is shamefully small given how many people we have exported. Sure, taking in people will cause some social difficulties, but not taking in people will cause a small section of these people to die or be maimed.


#433

I’ve lived in Germany and go there on a regular basis every year for the last 20. They have moved mostly beyond collective guilt to collective responsibility and a great understanding of world issues and social problems. This is because they have had a brilliant education system and communications. And they talk a hell of alot about problems and solving them, in their very sensible practical German cultural way. In short, they make very good plans and then get on with it because they are experts at making things work.

As they did with about 8 million Turks.


#434

This. Very much this.


#435

The cultures in Ireland and America are very similar. I would describe it as disingenuous at best to compare the two.


#436

I think there has to be better integration. Thats the main issue. Until that happens there will always be a natural divide and fear of the unknown creates conflict on both sides and tribalism grows.


#437

I’m talking about Sweden.


#438

There’s no doubting it’s a hard topic to discuss online, but we’re doing well, not one has called anyone else hitler yet.


#439

People emigrated from here a lot more recently then 100 years ago. I did it myself 20 years ago, as did many others. But there are two arguments here, one is economic and the other is moral. Both are valid.

On an economic front, we need skilled people, but we also need people. Our economy was just too small. When we had 3.5 million people we just did not have enough people to buy, sell, manufacture etc. Our pie was tiny, so everyone only got a tiny slice. Actually the whole of Europe is short on workers at the moment to feed the growing economies, Czech R, Hungary and Slovakia all now have full employment practically and as a result their growth is being seriously limited. People are going to have to be bought in from somewhere, even the countries that are being led by anti immigrant leaders (Hungary for instance) are trying to bring people in from countries that they approve of. But yes, skilled people are also needed…

But apart from that - we have duty to help people who are less fortunate. And yes, I know it is easy to point to people who came in and say they don’t look less fortunate and look how ungrateful they are etc. But an immigration policy who only accepts people who would have been harmed if they stayed and who will be eternally grateful, just doesn’t exist and never has anywhere.


#440

thought it was a lidl that was robbed, not an IKEA.


#441

because some black/eastern kids were involved apparently.


#442

A tiny minority of those involved I thought…


#443

Fair point, up to a point. But all sorts of cultures have managed to integrate in very different places to greater or lesser extents. Mass migrations from China to elsewhere in the past for example. India/Pakistan too. Bosnian Muslims into Germany, and then America in the 90s. Africans previously into many places.

Btw, five of my family of 7 emigrated, 4 of them for most of their lives. And my dad before them, and my mother too.