No I don’t think it is ott at all. I think the dismissal of the reports are ott
I don’t doubt that there are issues around general crime. I do think that sexual crimes are overstated though as attributable to immigrants.
It’s ironic that it took the demise of despotic North African regimes to kick off the current refugee crises. That might go a ways to explain why Western Powers didnt do a lot to try to remove them.
a lot of the north afrcian lads are economic migrants. Very different to refugees.
Dismissal of which reports? There have been overhyped reports of a crime wave in Sweden going back well before 2015. Iomaint tires to say that the figures are being massaged or crimes not reported, because the data didn’t suit his argument. Only in 2016 has there been a noticeable increase but the “CRIME WAVE” headlines predate that as snopes were responding to the same hyperbole in 2015. Still a lower crime rate then the USA, so the land of the free must be floundering with crime. Must be the mexican bad hombres i suppose.
Most stats have being dismissed by some on here as BS without offering any counter stats. Sweden and Germany are both experiencing a lot of problems and it’s no coincidence that they’ve taken in the most amount of migrants. I’m not anti immigration. I think we need a lot of migrants as we don’t have the skills required to keep our hospitals open and manufacturing industry going. But it has to be standard based. Put it this way. If Australia opened its borders to uncontrolled immigration from Western Europe, there Would be massive problems with our undesirables causing trouble over there.
I’d say if you asked the residents of bondi beach they’d say that’s already the case.
It’s also true that Libya etc is being used as a conduit for sub Saharan migrants and refugees and its North African instability that’s allowing it to occur.
Personally, on a grander scale, I think the wests political and economic meddling in Africa is coming home to roost. The continent is relatively underdeveloped and has a burgeoning population amid environmental deterioration. These issues are only beginning.
Fair enough. i agree that Sweden and germany probably went a bit ott but taking in the number of refugees they did or at least anecdotally seems so. however Sweden’s last batch of refugees in the 90s (from the bosnian war) sparked the original hype about sweden being overrun with crime. But they should be applauded for rescuing people destitute thanks to the UK and USAs reckless actions & illegal wars in the middle east. even if it has some negative social effects (a lot of which are grossly exaggerated by right wing media).
Agreed. It’s a shambles in a lot of cases. In many ways thanks to European imperialism. And you can’t blame people feeling some of the regimes in Africa.
Just wandered in here - it’s sort of fascinating how a thread that starts with the Lidl robbery has transformed into a discussion on immigration with no great obvious link between the two. It seems if crime is mentioned, then immigration must also come into it. This isn’t only through of Ireland. I spend a lot of time in the Czech Rep and Hungary where this is even more pronounced, especially anti Moslem / African rhetoric. The ironic thing in these cases is that these particular counties would have absolutely tiny Moslem or African populations. So it seems very much to me as if people there are just looking for an excuse to confirm their biases. I would hate to think that Ireland would go the same way - especially as a country that sent well above their average share of immigrants out into the world.
A fact that is lost on alot of people . The Irish were no saints when they arrived in the states either .
People also seem to be ignorant/forgetful of their history as well when it comes to Irish immigrants as a whole in some places where they were treated like dirt
It’s a fact that with all due respect is not relevant in 2018. Because Irish people left an masse over 100 years ago we can’t discuss serious social and cultural differences between immigrants from non European countries today?
It’s completely irrelevant to a discussion on immigration in 2018. Collective guilt has Germany the way it is now. It’s nonsense
No bother , well have this conversation in a 100 years and see how things fare out .
Don’t know about that, we still have the youngest population in Europe. And well educated.
Nobody has argued that there aren’t increased social problems with large, quick influxes of immigrants.
The only thing I’ve contradicted so far really has been the scare-mongering doomsday opinions about it, and the certitude with which those opinions are given, a faites accomplit. Society is allowed have problems from immigration, and the people who suffer most are indeed those at the lower end of social stratus no doubt.
But the big migrations are not going to stop until some much bigger world-wide issues change, and currently it only appears as if those things are going to get worse rather than better. The tide will not be stemmed indefinitely. We’ve been reading and hearing and seeing about famine, war, and disease on a massive scale in various parts of the world for decades. These places in many cases have not improved. The problems have been on such a huge scale, and ever increasing population with declining resources, widespread corruption, and climate-change are making resolution less and less likely.
People want a chance at a better life, or any life, and on such a massive scale that nothing was going to hold it back forever, no immigration policy, no amount of hardlining, look at what Trump’s govt tried, and they have failed, and they will fail even more.
Sure maybe it will be doomsday anyway but stopping immigration at this stage is like saying that the Dutch boy could have saved the flood by his finger in one hole in the dyke. If it’s stopped somewhere it will come through somewhere else.
It’s not too long in history since Russia and much of Europe experienced huge migrations, huge wars, and devastation. The scale of it now again is overtaking the ability to slow it down. and the ability to effect widespread change in the countries having mass migration out is limited currently.
On a more positive note things can also improve alot like they did in Europe after 1945 for example.
Any country with mass emigration, export people who will become marginalised and experience social issues in the host country. It has always been, and always will be. Ireland were completely no exception to this in the US, GB and Australia. Some issues were caused by bias on behalf of the natives and some by the emigrants themselves. But without the release valve of emigration we would have had a far higher death rate during famine times and far greater social issues during times of economic strife. This is true of countries that are now exporting people. So I guess it is a moral question if we want to isolate ourselves from places that now have issues to protect ourselves from difficulty, or if we want to try to become part of the solution.
My brother live in the suburb next to Rinkeby. He’s very left wing/socialist. He’s been down there trying to help out. Running soccer teams. Trying to encourage younger lads to get involved in the community. But even he is coming to the conclusion that there are a good minority of people there who have no interest in integrating and as is sometimes the case want everything their own way like at home. Except for the war.
To go back to my original point. The Swedes have been enormously welcoming to people, a number of whom have slapped them silly. That’s going to cause a reaction, even in a country as doclie as Sweden.
So we refuse all immigrants but complain when other countries won’t take ours? I have lived in a few areas that would be intrinsically anti immigrant, Eastern Europe and the Southern US - they would be without doubt the most backward, most sociably messed up places I have spent time.