No doubt about that, as bart says, they wont win a shootout v galway so they have to try something else. What i dont understand is sweepers v wexford. really? I think let off the hook waterford would have battered wexford.
But there’s no need to batter Waterford, why change your tactics for the sake of a game you’ll win either way… may as well use it as an opportunity to fine tune tactics again
The problem is, they’re fairly predictable, so they’ll do well to beat the likes of tipp or galway either way.
As Irish people I think the best way we can decide about change is to have a referendum on it. Referendums worked wonders for the likes of divorce, same sex marriage and even the lisbon treaty. So why not have one on the sweeper system
And like Lisbon keep going again until the “right” answer is chosen
Football has even less per annum. And nobody complains . In my view it’s pure snobbery from the hurling aficionados that the game can only be played one way
Maybe if we’d more counties breaking the stereotype we’d have a more competitive championship
Ger loughnane has a famous quote in his book about when a team wants to break the mould they need to play the game by different rules
His Clare side did that and they never received one iota of respect from the Holy Trinity
The Tipp Cork game was one of those traditional man on man shoot out contests with each team racking up a huge score. It was enjoyable but a bit anaemic.
The Wexford Waterford game was a complete contrast, both teams playing tactically with Wexford in particular trying to pass the ball up the pitch before shooting. Like others on here I find it interesting but frustrating to watch.
But there is a third type of game, a half way house almost with tactics thrown away as teams get desperate. The Waterford win over Kilkenny is an example. It was scrappy and low scoring in the early stages, the Deise looked to be home and hosed and the Cats threw everything they could at them and nearly snatched it. I love those games - the quarter finals were so predictable in comparison. You just knew Clare and Wexford were going to stubbornly crawl to the end and inevitable defeat.
Lots of Clare fans just don’t go to games anymore, next year Wexford fans will stay away as the novelty wears off.
If Fitzgerald or McGrath come here with their sweeper shite, I will quote the people on here who have stuck up for it. After a while, you will change your tune. Dont pretend we had a chance of winning the McCarthy with that system under Daly either. It will simply send an untrue message to our players that will harm them for years. And Anyone who thinks Loughnane used a sweeper- when he had the best full back and centre back in Ireland, needs to consider a visit to either the optician or the G.P. The counties who actually changed hurling were Kilkenny and Cork, even if they don’t admit that, by the Nore.
I know what I saw with Clare and they were one of he first teams to play only two up front . Especially with the likes of David forde for example who roamed everywhere You’re just married to romantic hurling.
Daly was a bad refereeing decision away from an all Ireland final against his own county . And had we won it you wouldn’t have given a shite about playing five forwards And neither would Waterford fans if they won one .
Had Ryan O Dwyer not been sent off Dublin would have been in the All Ireland final in 2013. And that would have made it a one in two chance of winning the Mc Carthy. Them odds aren’t bad.
Had they have gotten to the All Ireland final under Daly, or do so under lets say a Mc Grath or Davy Fitz would you have been there or would you be there supporting?
I fully admit I despise the sweeper system Bart. I don’t believe Clare used one or even a version of one. Daly, Seanie, Liam Doyle, Baker and Lynch were well able to control the middle. Maybe at times the forwards came out for ball but you could not say that they played a defensive system throughout their games. Their forwards with a couple of exceptions were not great hurlers and fitness and manic tackling were essential to the way they played.
I believe Clare would have eaten us in 2013 if we had gone with five forwards in the final. Yes I fear for hurling. Some of the central skills have all but disappeared. If you pull in the air now, your opponent gets a free. I believe Kilkenny were responsible for most of the initial changes in terms of a defensive set up. I despise what McGrath and Fitz bring and I firmly believe that counties who win with 7 backs could win with 6 if trained properly. I also think it smacks of fear and harms players in the long run. I hope it does not enable any team to win an All Ireland in hurling. If that is old school, then I accept that claim- guilty as charged!
Entitled to your view but we’d have given Clare their fill of it . No way Shane o donnell gets the freedom of Croke Park marking an all star in Peter Kelly
People said hurling was finished too without ground hurling
Couple of random points:
Galway played with 5 forwards 1986 championship.
Clare used Alan Markham extensively as a sweeper in Daly’s time.
I didn’t see the match but I was told the westmeath full back hurled Callinan with no back-up
Clare also used a sweeper in 2013 in the 1/4 and semi finals but ditched it for the finals.
20 out of the last 21 all Ireland senior finals won by teams who play close to a traditional style of hurling. Lets hope it continues.
You’ve noted the names of the counties
Cork , Kilkenny and Tipp have won how many of the 20?
Once the mugs keep playing the traditional style the aristocrats are happy . Hard to believe how gullible people are
Hurling elitism gets away with it again and again because “it’s the ancient game and only the purist can tell you what’s what”. There is no real discourse on Hurling, except how great a game it is, and “we don’t want any of your football tactics trying to beat the real hurling teams”.
Oh, and “how dare you say the ref let’s players away with anything, sure we’re all agreed, keep the game flowing”.
Yes reminds me a lot of the Kerry attitude in football, keepers of the flame and all that rubbish. Many Ulster teams were sick of taking beatings and being given a condescending pat on the back so when they mixed it up they were called puke football.
If your Waterford do you go xv on xv if you don’t think you can beat the bigger counties or do you try something else even if it restricts some of you more skilful players to give yourself a chance of upsetting the odds.
Waterford’s lack of inside forwards is boring and hard to look at but they have been taking their beatings from the likes of Kilkenny for 70 odd years but their tactics this year made the game so tight they were able to eek out a result. Do they have better players than their system allows ? Sure but if they win Liam McCarthy playing this way they couldn’t give a damn. The top three will always look down their noses at them why look for validation just try to beat them whatever way you can. Ask Armagh, Tyrone or Donegal could they give a damn what commentators thought of them.
All the talk of sweepers and systems a Cork v Tipp final is not beyond possibility. Galway are hot favourites which makes me worry. The favourites tag doesn’t sit well with them and the lack of competitive hurling in recent weeks may stand against them.
I seem to remember plenty of grief when football went defensive, first under Mickey harte and then More so under mcguinness. Puke football etc.,
It’s set up for galway this year, a lot of big strong men who can play ball. Not now or never but a great chance for them. Kk aren’t this pooor very often. Mind you tipp are coming good in the nick of time.