2019 NFL Round 4 Dublin v Mayo - Saturday Feb 23 @ 7pm, Croke Park


#751

So who of the current Mayo squad would you select over what current Dublin player?

And I do refer to their current form too…not Andy Moran or Lee Keegan on their form from 2 or 3 years ago. Their form now, or in their last championship game.

I can’t think of a single one.


#752

Course I can - and did. It doesn’t matter what happened previously if you get over that line. If you never get over that line it’s all open for discussion.


#753

But your point that is being argued here is that Mayo are not nearly as good as their performances in some All Ire Finals are being used to say, because they only scraped past some teams in qualifiers. Which they did consistently over three years. As in won those games consistently. The result was what mattered, as you keep saying yourself in making your own argument. Do you not see the contradiction there?


#754

I have two.


#755

In fairness I think anyone making any sort of sensible point about that argument is talking about those players at their best. Mórán is probably near the very end, and Keegan has had injury problems. Parsons of course had a terrible injury, surely all that can be taken as read?
Btw I’d also include injuries in terms of judging Paul Flynn’s performances the past few years…


#756

And the winning margin was the lost important.


#757

Mayo is 0-15 against Dublin since Jim Gavin took charge. I’d hardly consider that to be evidence of a rivalry.


#758

Just watching Mayo the other night and you’d have to feel for their supporters. It ;looks like more of the same - as has been since. 2011.Their is no doubting how close they’ve been and how a bit of luck at times might have got them over the line but the one constant thing is that they themselves have been the architects of their own downfall. The biggest factor in Mayo not winning Sam is Mayo.

Every year they get the large sympathy vote, gave it everything (and they do), next time and all that … yet they come back and do the same things with the same players (have never seen a team with so few lads breaking into it over a number of years - it’s uncanny really, especially when guys who have never really cut it are left on the panel). Have their fans never got angry about this? Has nobody ever analysed why (It’s not difficult) and set about righting things? Doesn’t seem so. When two lads tried to change things they were shown the door swiftly. What happened in that turn of events is the only thing in Mayo football I’ve seen critically analysed.

We got burned in 2014. It never happened since. Why? Learn - take corrective action - as we have done many times since.

Mayo continue the same way - no plan B, tactically lacking on the line, unwilling or unable to change things, playing players who clearly aren’t contributing, kicking crazy wides, no alternatives for clutch frees, poor discipline, not knowing where to play players.

Why doesn’t anyone in Mayo call this out? Instead of the ‘let’s roll up the sleeves and go again’ refrain at least look at the shortcomings. They are plain to see - and constant. Remember what Einstein said …


#759

The point I would make is that if you look at the totality of Mayo performances over the last three years it can’t have surprised anyone that they did not make the Super 8s last Summer and my opinion is they probably will not make them again this year.


#760

Nail on head


#761

Great teams win All Ireland’s…unfortunately for us this Mayo team didn’t get over the line…greatest team to never win an all Ireland…? Possibly but who wants that accolade…

One final push…?? They won’t give in that’s for sure and won’t go down without a fight but it’s hard to see it at this stage. Sickening as reality sets in.


#762

I agree with that but that’s moving the discussion goalposts yet again. The point being argued was your point that you make every couple of months saying Mayo have never been even near as good as Dublin and are overrated and none of their players would ever have made the Dublin team (except maybe Keegan?), and their tactics and coaching and lack of squad rotation are poor and so on. And every time you make those points somebody asks you how you can square all that with several finals ending up so close.

If they’re so mediocre or so poor as you keep saying they’ve been how come they were able to get so close to winning All Irelands so many times?
But the goalposts keep moving into a slightly different conversation and then it’s dropped til another while.
Now we’re at a stage where the core of this Mayo team is virtually done and your argument is morphing into one that says if they don’t get anywhere this year it will prove what you’ve been saying all along.
Whereas in fact it will only prove that they have declined since 2017.

By the way on the point about Mayo’s luck in not winning All Irelands, the only final or semifinal game out of the 10 such games they’ve not won over the last 8 years where I would say they got unlucky was the '16 drawn final. So I’m very objective in my opinions about them… :expressionless:

:stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


#763

AH here Al - just stop it there like a good man and don’t be doin’ a Spewan. If I give an opinion about no Mayo lad being good enough for the Dublin panel I am talking now - today. And the bottom line is they have not won Sam and that’s where any argument begins and ends. For reasons why see post further up.

But I’m out of this. Life’s too short … . well mine is Slán.


#764

Go easy lads!! It’s only a chat on a forum. Take it handy. None of this is personal!


#765

Nothing personal at all boss!? :thinking::thinking::thinking:


#766

Dub there is only one cure for this dilemma…midweek pints! A pal of mine has a saying: ‘The weekend starts of a Thursday and finishes of a Tuesday…and there’s something wrong if a man can’t have a pint midweek!’


#767

I just think people saying Mayo haven’t been, at their best between 2012 and 2017 a seriously talented team are simply undermining what Dublin have achieved.

They were clearly not at the races last year, for a variety of reasons, including injuries to key players, lack of strength in depth, and I would say likely decline in performance after losing the 2017 final, a game where they played as well as they ever have done, perhaps that was a sort of breaking point for them, I think the footage of the ‘wake’ in the pub in Westport after may have indicated as much.

Nevertheless this year remains to be seen. Sport is a great thing in many ways because of the capacity to surprise, for rejuvination and learning. After we lost the All-I final in 94 I couldn’t see any way back for that team, I couldn’t see how we’d possibly have a better chance, or recover from yet another such crushing set-back. But unforseen things occurred in 95, a few elements conspired to open that door a crack one more time and the team and mgmt had the desire to get through, and had learned enough to do so.

For example, they way they protected the leads against Cork & Tyrone, a lesson very hard learned from the games lost (and drawn! :sob:) in the previous six years, the 88 Leinster Final, 89 semi-final, not conceding stupid goals like the 1990 Leinster final, and we won’t mention 91, the 92 final, 93 semi-final - all games where significant leads were surrendered. Or chances not taken, such as the 94 final.

If Mayo can learn from the last day, if the stalwarts can be hurt enough to respond, for pride alone, and some newer lads start to step up, they can still make something serious out of this league, and this year. But they will need a fully fit LK on form. A top quality scoring forward to have a top year or at least summer. And to discover a midfield that can compete with most of the best, and some other element, ala Jayo for us in 95. Remember that Dublin team didn’t really have more than Dessie Farrell to really compare to the other top forwards in the country at the time. Didn’t have an outstanding midfield. Didn’t have one of the best two or three coaches around, I would argue.

How would Mayo ever hope to beat Dublin this year? They would need us to get knocked out by someone else based on the evidence so far, though every good fighter always has a slugger’s chance.


#768

No in fairness they have always been at their very best in Finals against us - no disputing that at all.


#769

I like the raw honesty in your post and despite the deflation towards the end I still hear the hope in your type!


#770

Cork!!!